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Riverrat
01-28-2002, 11:26 AM
Im a 43 year male who started exercising at 40. The first year iweighed 215 lbs with a 5'9" frame.Now i weigh 185 lbs with 11% body fat. I go to the gym 4 times aweek usually 1 to 2 hour sessions. Two days a week i run 7 miles each day wich takes me 1 hour. Can anybody give me some ideas on the cardio, should i continue to run or walk fast for building muscle mass?

Over46andFit
01-29-2002, 04:09 AM
Hi Riverrat,

At 11% bodyfat you should consider eliminating or minimize the cardio for 2 months and focus on weight training and diet to build mass. At our age recovery is extremely important so you want to be sure not to work a muscle group more than once per week and get plenty of rest.

Be sure to suppliment with l-glutamine to preserve the mass you build.
Increase cold water consumption to at least a gallon per day.

Add a quality protein blend, vitamins, an EFA and creatine.

Be sure to take a protein shake before bed.

Most of the other suppliments have little or no effect and are not worth the money.
Hope this helps,
Jim

Original Poster
01-29-2002, 02:56 PM
bump over46's post.

But... I personally would never totally cut cardio. Maybe minimize to 20-30 mins 2-4 days a week. The 7 miles in an hr, to catabolic for mass building IMHO. To add to over46's supp list, when cutting, I would add an ECA stack and ZMA all year round to the usefull list. I think proper use of a few PH's can help us older guys out alot.

kendo
01-31-2002, 09:10 AM
Hi River Rat

Welcome to the ol' croonies section good to hear from you. I run 3 morns/ week if I can and cover 3 miles in 1/2 hour. I think any more and it would impede gains. Cutting for a show I would get up to 40 mins daily. A two hour training session will also lead to overtraining. Training with max intensity with as few sets possible I find is the key to recovery and growth.

Kendo

http://www.bodybuilding.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=421

Shinda
02-02-2002, 11:14 PM
I feel that too much cardio, especially at our age, is counter-productive to muscle gain. So, if your main goal is to gain muscle, then keep your cardio sessions to about 20-25 mins, 3 times per week, maintaining a heartrate at about 70% of maximum. Conserve your energy for your weight training, which should be intense and use fairly heavy weights with lower reps. The cardio is just to control the fat gain.

After you have gained some mass (muscle+some fat), then you can start lighter weight training, and longer (40-50 mins) of cardio to take off the excess fat. Also, the gained muscle will help to burn more fat too. A lot of people make the mistake of concentrating too much on the cardio part and neglect the weight training when in fact, the more muscle you build, the faster you will be able to shed fat.

I have found that this formula works for me. I continually cycle between heavy weight training coupled with short cardio sessions for about 3 months and then lighter weight training coupled with longer cardio sessions for about 6 weeks.

Also, don't do heavy training AND hour long cardio sessions because you'll just end up overtraining your body and you'll start losing muscle mass.

airplanegeek
02-05-2002, 01:36 PM
I'm looking for specifics. I want to gain mass. I'lm 53 5'5" 150lb.
I joined Golds and got the "sort of trainer" with the contract. I'm running 15 to 20 minutes 5 to 6 days a week. He has me working all the machines every day (about 1 and a half hours) and I am really trying to be intense. Been at it for about 2 and half weeks. Increased weghts on machines an average of 80%. Doing 3 sets of 15 reps on all. Have noticed some gains. Shoulders arms and chest seem better. I've read that you should only train the muscle groups 1 to 2 times a week. So why does this fellow recommend dailey. He should know what he is talking about. He is huge. I am taking mega whey protein supp. and mega creatine. I want to get huge. How???????????

Original Poster
02-05-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by airplanegeek
I've read that you should only train the muscle groups 1 to 2 times a week. So why does this fellow recommend dailey. He should know what he is talking about. He is huge. I am taking mega whey protein supp. and mega creatine. I want to get huge. How???????????


That is more like circuit training with weights, which I am not a fan of if bigger gains are what you are looking for (good for warm up sets, though). Your trainer doesn't know sh*t if that 's what he has you doing for good gains. I don't car how big the guy is.

Because of your age.....
If I had to guess, he is starting you out with some basic lifting to start you out slow and see if you stick with it (most people don't). Take your time and educate yourself. NOBODY gets big (or huge for that matter) quickly unless they are genetically gifted. Hard work and proper diet are key. I don't care how much creatine and protein you are taking, it must fit into a carefully planned diet and supplementation plan to work. Diet is so damn important.

I like to train a body part (except abs) no more that 1 day a week.
(definately not more than twice a week and that is only for certain muscles)

But when I say train, I MEAN REALLY HIT - HARD and from all angles. If you hit it (a muscle) hard enough, 5-7 days rest is needed before you can effectively hit that muscle again.

Take the time and read and search these boards, there is a ton a usefull info here.

good luck.

a goal, education, a plan, execution and persistance & dedication.

SIMPLE REALLY !

Over46andFit
02-06-2002, 04:23 AM
airplanegeek,

Chi_town is right on. This "trainer" is typical of what gold's (and a lot of other gym chains) seem to provide. I've witnessed these guys misinforming and ultimately discouraging lots of folks. I've recently seen one of these fools coaching a lady in her mid 40's ",having her squatting on a smith machine deep enough to sit on her heels. She was in excrutiating pain on the positive. When I tapped him on the shoulder, asking him why, he replied" I know what I'm doing!!, we've worked her into deep deep squats" (This "trainer was all of 20 or 21years old). She came over to me after failing in her "first set" of "2" reps and asked if she was doing anything wrong and was it supposed to hurt that bad. She also told me it was her first time in the gym.

To add to Chi_town's great advise:

I would suggest, as a great source of information, "Arnold Swartznegger's bodybuilding encyclopedia.

Most of the "miracle" suppliments are marginally, if at all, effective and not worth the money. A good protein suppliment, creatine, vitamins, ZMA and l-glutamine are prabably all you need.

Proper diet and adequate recovery is as important as the lifting. It will also take 4-6 years (maybe longer) to achieve the results you're after.

mssixpack56
02-11-2002, 11:24 AM
I, too, am trying to build mass. It is hard won especially at the pace I go. I was told to eliminate all cardio for the nesxt 12 weeks while bulking. It is hard for me since I've run since grade school. I've gone without cardio now for a month and there have been no fat gains or ill effects. Rather, I believe there is an added pound of muscle weight.

Stasia

decider111
02-11-2002, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by airplanegeek
I'm looking for specifics. I want to gain mass. I'lm 53 5'5" 150lb.
I joined Golds and got the "sort of trainer" with the contract. I'm running 15 to 20 minutes 5 to 6 days a week. He has me working all the machines every day (about 1 and a half hours) and I am really trying to be intense. Been at it for about 2 and half weeks. Increased weghts on machines an average of 80%. Doing 3 sets of 15 reps on all. Have noticed some gains. Shoulders arms and chest seem better. I've read that you should only train the muscle groups 1 to 2 times a week. So why does this fellow recommend dailey. He should know what he is talking about. He is huge. I am taking mega whey protein supp. and mega creatine. I want to get huge. How???????????

I agree with the others that your trainer sounds inept. I have seen trainers do all sorts of really stupid things. I think some health clubs have no certification program at all.

At 45, I do weights 4-5 x week, but I concentrate on different body parts. I do a mix of machines and free weights, but I focus primarily on free weights. If you want to start appropriately slow and avoid risk of injury, still see gains, and not burn yourself out you could do the circuit every third day. Note that some experts consider that you need only do 1 set of each exercise for the first six months. I personally feel that you should use the first 4-6 months as an opportunity to learn what works best for you.

While there are some rules in weight lifting, there is also some room for individual variation. For example, some people will only do BP's with dumbbells and others prefer only barbells. Some people, particularly at our age, cannot do squats due to knee trouble, but can do leg presses. In any event, experiment and learn the correct form for each exercise. If you cannot trust the trainer, try (1) getting good books, (2) rent some videos, (3) ask some people who look like they know what they are doing, and (4) check the articles and ideas on this board. After 4-6 months, you can then start constructin gyour own routine and advanced to super sets and other variations.

On cardio, I would limnit mysef to no more than 30 minutes a day 3-4 per week at this point. You do not want to burn yourself out. You also do not want to wind up living in the gym. With cardio, you should be in and out in ~ 90 minutes or less.

Finally, as a beginner, you do not need fancy supplements. (I doubt they are needed except for competive lifters and builders.) A good diet with a strong mix of lean protein (approx. .8 grams per pound of body weight) and complex carbs, but not refined sugars, ought be enough. Make sure you get lots and lots of water and reduce caffeine. Build in time for rest and good sleep.

Good luck!