What is your ultimate extra-long range setup? (caliber poll)

[Steak_n_Taters]

OK, this is for what your ideal setup would be for a weapon that you could really reach out and touch someone. I mean effective range out to 1500 yards. Something where a man-sized target at 800 yards wouldn't really be any trouble at all (with good skills).

So what caliber, barrel length, barrel style, muzzle devices, bullet weight, action, glass, etc. would you want?

I'm kind of looking for parts/setups here, not just "Barret 50BMG" or something like that.

Poll coming

ETA: I do eventually want to build up a rifle that would have ultra long range capabilities, but that's pretty far in the future. Just figured I'd start doing some research and getting some other opinions. Right now I'm not really leaning in any particular direction. A cartridge big enough for anti-material would be nice though :D

[Creature83]

http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-50.php
50 bmg is the obvious choice. Sure there's the 338 Lapua and all these weird wildcats that are suppose to be just as good ballistically but the components are twice as much. A lot of people are quick to tout the M82a1a as the ultimate 50 but I would like a bolt. I think the accuracy potential is a lot greater.

I'd probably buy an Armalite AR-50 before any other 50. One sold the other day on SniperHide for $2000 NIB in like 10mins. I wish I ran across it before the other guy i would have bought it.

The majority of people who throw around "oh that .338/.408 is a laser beam, much more effective than the 50 BMG" non sense are just drinking the kool aid IMO. Been watching too much Shooter. The truth of the matter is, it doesn't make a difference what caliber you're shooting, 1500m is a hell of a long way. Being able to shoot that distance comes from practice, not how much money you can throw at a particular end all be all cartridge. If i get into that game I'm going to make damn sure I can afford to practice otherwise there's really no point.

[cr25ovet]

thats easy 416 barrett. According to the company, the .416 shoots flatter, faster and hits harder than anything available.

[House72]

thats easy 416 barrett.

x2.. .416 Barret, gains more energy the longer it travels. It also has less drop then the .50 caliber.. It's a bolt, and at a decent price as well, almost half the price of the A82a1...

[House72]

I been thinking about building a long distance gun myself.. My .708 shoots pretty decent at longer distances... As stated before, you can have the most expensive gun out there, but if you can't shoot, it's all worthless.. PRACTICE, PRACTICE and PRACTICE..... It takes some skill as well to hit something 1500-2000 meters away...

[Lothar Allen]

x2.. .416 Barret, gains more energy the longer it travels. It also has less drop then the .50 caliber.. It's a bolt, and at a decent price as well, almost half the price of the A82a1...

There is no possible way it gains energy.

[cr25ovet]

There is no possible way it gains energy.

it must be one of those lol
http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content06/runaway-smart-bullet1.jpg

[Creature83]

x2.. .416 Barret, gains more energy the longer it travels. It also has less drop then the .50 caliber.. It's a bolt, and at a decent price as well, almost half the price of the A82a1...

BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA

[xc_mtb]

.408 cheytac seems pretty nice it has a .945 BC and supposedly at 700 yards has more armor piercing capabilities than a .50 bmg does (at 700).
also, the new CheyCorey round supposedly outperforms the BMG in armor piercing at any range.
not to mention the m200 intervention shoots 16" groupings at 2500yds. too bad the system is like $13k lol. also, the cheytac stays supersonic longer than the BMG i beleive. the cheytac stays SS until like 2200 yards, so its probably easier to compensate for drop.
i will admit im no expert in these types of rifles, perhaps ive just listened to too much hype lol

edit: why so many votes for .308? theres no way in HELL you could get an effective range of 1500m out of a .308, longest kill achieved with a 7.62x51mm was ~1200 yds, and even the guy that fired it admitted it was lucky as hell

[Creature83]

50 BMG 750gr AMAX= 1.05 BC

[Steak_n_Taters]

50 BMG 750gr AMAX= 1.05 BC

Yeah I've read this too. .416 is supposed to have a 1+ BC, but they are less available than 50BMG.

[guest89]

Probably a 6.5 Grendal if I hand loaded... Can be shot out of an AR15 platform and its better then a .308 with less recoil.




If I wanted something more common probably a .300MAG or .338 out of a DSR-1, if I could get my hands on it.


http://www.ukmonsters.co.uk/dsr1/site/dsr-1.jpg

[sugicalmike]

While I'll glady give one of my testies to get a .50, as far as long range precision shooting goes, I'm going to go with the .338 Lapua, perfect ballistics coupled with enough energy to give good penetration and hitting power.

I really like the .338, maybe I'll be in the market for one of those.

[Geno]

7 mag but only because it was what I happened to buy some twenty years (and way over one hundred deer) ago.

Ruger 77 with nothing special - will put two rounds of green box remington touching each other almost every time at b range.

I also have a very old remington 7400 that's beautiful (very fine cut checkering, high gloss finish, contrasting end and buttcaps, etc.) in .243 that will do similar.

[jgreystoke]

Man-sized target to 800:

308 is fine.

6.5 x 55 swede is even better due to much better BCs in normal bullet weights. Much less wind drift. Also elicits the question "what recoil?".

Beyond 800 the typical 308 loads go transonic and the turbulence associated with that widen groups considerably. The 6.5 is way better at 1000.

1500! Most people can't even throw dirt on a target at that range.

338Lapua has the advantage that it uses half the powder of the 50BMG, has a fraction of the recoi and muzzle blastl. Similar trajectory.

There are quite a few 800 yard rifles, but very few 800 yard riflemen. I know a few.

There are only a few 1500 yard rifles, and hardly any 1500 yard riflemen. I'll let you know when I meet one.

[Steak_n_Taters]

Man-sized target to 800:

308 is fine.

6.5 x 55 swede is even better due to much better BCs in normal bullet weights. Much less wind drift. Also elicits the question "what recoil?".

Beyond 800 the typical 308 loads go transonic and the turbulence associated with that widen groups considerably. The 6.5 is way better at 1000.

1500! Most people can't even throw dirt on a target at that range.

338Lapua has the advantage that it uses half the powder of the 50BMG, has a fraction of the recoi and muzzle blastl. Similar trajectory.

There are quite a few 800 yard rifles, but very few 800 yard riflemen. I know a few.

There are only a few 1500 yard rifles, and hardly any 1500 yard riflemen. I'll let you know when I meet one.

Good input. I'll let you know (via youtube) when I can make that 1000+ yard shot

[Creature83]

Man-sized target to 800:

308 is fine.

6.5 x 55 swede is even better due to much better BCs in normal bullet weights. Much less wind drift. Also elicits the question "what recoil?".

Beyond 800 the typical 308 loads go transonic and the turbulence associated with that widen groups considerably. The 6.5 is way better at 1000.

1500! Most people can't even throw dirt on a target at that range.

338Lapua has the advantage that it uses half the powder of the 50BMG, has a fraction of the recoi and muzzle blastl. Similar trajectory.

There are quite a few 800 yard rifles, but very few 800 yard riflemen. I know a few.

There are only a few 1500 yard rifles, and hardly any 1500 yard riflemen. I'll let you know when I meet one.

My only beef with the 6.5 is it's kill power at that range. It seems to be a great cal for punching paper, I see all these guys using the 6.5-.284, 6.5x47, grendel an whatnot to get out pretty far. I was talking with my uncle about this on thanksgiving. When I mentioned it's capabilities energy wise he reassured me that the swedes have been using it for years to kill red deer which are supposedly as big as elk. I'm still skeptical of the 6.5 and its variations just not to the point of nay saying. ;)

Sure the .338 lapua uses half the powder but what you spend on bullets and brass will soon outweigh the money you would save (compared to the .50). I could see the recoil being an issue, I guess it depends on your purpose for the rifle. If it was just going to be a prone gun and you weren't going to be lugging it around I'd say the hell with it and just get you a big .50 with a good break. If it was something you wanted to be mobile with then maybe.

.308 is good enough for me for now, but once I get out past 1000m I might look into something else. I have a feeling that will be a ways away.

[Steak_n_Taters]

My only beef with the 6.5 is it's kill power at that range. It seems to be a great cal for punching paper, I see all these guys using the 6.5-.284, 6.5x47, grendel an whatnot to get out pretty far. I was talking with my uncle about this on thanksgiving. When I mentioned it's capabilities energy wise he reassured me that the swedes have been using it for years to kill red deer which are supposedly as big as elk. I'm still skeptical of the 6.5 and its variations just not to the point of nay saying. ;)

Sure the .338 lapua uses half the powder but what you spend on bullets and brass will soon outweigh the money you would save (compared to the .50). I could see the recoil being an issue, I guess it depends on your purpose for the rifle. If it was just going to be a prone gun and you weren't going to be lugging it around I'd say the hell with it and just get you a big .50 with a good break. If it was something you wanted to be mobile with then maybe.

.308 is good enough for me for now, but once I get out past 1000m I might look into something else. I have a feeling that will be a ways away.

Keep in mind an advantage of the 338 could be that if there were ever a 50 cal ban, the 338 and its ammo would be fine.

And yeah like you said I think you could be a little more mobile with the 338. Still has good anti material capability for a lighter load and I think they are supposed to be more accurate at extra long distance (1200+ meters) than the .50.

Not to mention the rifles seem to be somewhat cheaper.

How good do you think the AR30/AR50 would be out to the extreme ranges?

[sugicalmike]

Keep in mind an advantage of the 338 could be that if there were ever a 50 cal ban, the 338 and its ammo would be fine.

And yeah like you said I think you could be a little more mobile with the 338. Still has good anti material capability for a lighter load and I think they are supposed to be more accurate at extra long distance (1200+ meters) than the .50.

Not to mention the rifles seem to be somewhat cheaper.

How good do you think the AR30/AR50 would be out to the extreme ranges?

They will not ban .50's, those ballots would be cast from the rooftops if they proposed that bill.

[Steak_n_Taters]

They will not ban .50's, those ballots would be cast from the rooftops if they proposed that bill.

:D Hopefully

[sugicalmike]

:D Hopefully

Don't worry, our self-appointed saviors are too stupid to realize that they're really starting to piss us off...... I'm sure give it some patience and practice and they won't let us down.

[guest89]

The biggest problem with the .50 is its a damn heavy weapon. At least, the Barrett is. Recoil isn't even an issue with it though, factor in the large muzzle brake and the 30lb+ weapon and the recoil is quite controllable. Muzzle blast/noise is another thing though. :D


I've a buddy with one, while its cool to have, here in Louisiana finding a place to shoot the thing is the biggest issue. I wouldn't mind having one, just in-case SHTF and I need to be able to take out vehicles and stuff. :D


The good thing about the .50 is if SHTF I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard acquire ammo if there's any dead military units around. (Zombies, plague, foreign forces, etc.)

[jgreystoke]

My only beef with the 6.5 is it's kill power at that range. It seems to be a great cal for punching paper, I see all these guys using the 6.5-.284, 6.5x47, grendel an whatnot to get out pretty far. I was talking with my uncle about this on thanksgiving. When I mentioned it's capabilities energy wise he reassured me that the swedes have been using it for years to kill red deer which are supposedly as big as elk. I'm still skeptical of the 6.5 and its variations just not to the point of nay saying. ;)

The Swedes have been using the 6.5 x 55 for over a century to kill Moose, which they call Elk over there. I know two shooting buddies who have doubled on large deer, killing the one they aimed at and the one behind its shoulder using 140gr 6.5 x 55. That was at close range of course. Its retained energy at long range is pretty impressive compared to the 308. The 6.5 x 284 and other larger cased variations like the 264Win mag have much shorter barrel life and no improvement in accuracy, so I wouldn't bother, in spite of the flatter trajectory.


Sure the .338 lapua uses half the powder but what you spend on bullets and brass will soon outweigh the money you would save (compared to the .50). I could see the recoil being an issue, I guess it depends on your purpose for the rifle. If it was just going to be a prone gun and you weren't going to be lugging it around I'd say the hell with it and just get you a big .50 with a good break. If it was something you wanted to be mobile with then maybe.

I wouldn't use a brake on anything. Actually increases flinch by throwing muzzle blast back at the shooter. I'm a believer in suppressors, even on high power rifles. The Fins make the best including Toute and ASE. Big reduction in recoil, and more important, muzzle blast. Makes the shooter very hard to locate. The sonic crack of the bullet echoes off everything like tree trunks. The game/bgs being shot at often look the wrong way.




.308 is good enough for me for now, but once I get out past 1000m I might look into something else. I have a feeling that will be a ways away.

Agreed. I wouldn't shoot at anything further anyway. Would try to get closer. Have shot a lot at 500-800 using 308 and 6.5. Just fine and very manageable. And I like a "sniper" rifle to be light enough like a hunting gun. To compare, in 1969 Steyr Mannlicher brought out the SSG which was state of the art at the time. Weighs only 10lbs 2 oz with the Kahles 6x42 scope. That's a lightweight compared to modern sniper systems. I have one completely original.

[_Pacey_]

Really wouldn't need anything more then a good accurate .308 ofr up to 800yards. Good shooters should be getting targets at 800m + with a .308.

50cal is completely unneccesary here

[untouchabledfx]

.408 cheytac seems pretty nice it has a .945 BC and supposedly at 700 yards has more armor piercing capabilities than a .50 bmg does (at 700).
also, the new CheyCorey round supposedly outperforms the BMG in armor piercing at any range.
not to mention the m200 intervention shoots 16" groupings at 2500yds. too bad the system is like $13k lol. also, the cheytac stays supersonic longer than the BMG i beleive. the cheytac stays SS until like 2200 yards, so its probably easier to compensate for drop.
i will admit im no expert in these types of rifles, perhaps ive just listened to too much hype lol

edit: why so many votes for .308? theres no way in HELL you could get an effective range of 1500m out of a .308, longest kill achieved with a 7.62x51mm was ~1200 yds, and even the guy that fired it admitted it was lucky as hell

x2

I belive that MAC said the .408 had more energy at 1.5 miles than the .50bmg did.

[sugicalmike]

x2

I belive that MAC said the .408 had more energy at 1.5 miles than the .50bmg did.

You're from Wyandotte, stfu!

[NuggzTheNinja]

AR15 and running shoes.

[Creature83]

Here's the only .408 cheytac bullet i could find for sale: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=298918

You can keep it for that cost ($2.66 a bullet). Plus it's only 305 grains (I know, i know that's still a heavy ass bullet). I wonder what that would do to an engine block compared to a 800 grain Barnes bullet from a 50 BMG? I'll take the 50, thank you. Same could be said for the .338 Lapua. I guess it depends what you're hunting. People or cars/trucks?

[Steak_n_Taters]

Here's the only .408 cheytac bullet i could find for sale: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=298918

You can keep it for that cost ($2.66 a bullet). Plus it's only 305 grains (I know, i know that's still a heavy ass bullet). I wonder what that would do to an engine block compared to a 800 grain Barnes bullet from a 50 BMG? I'll take the 50, thank you. Same could be said for the .338 Lapua. I guess it depends what you're hunting. People or cars/trucks?

Yeah. The guns are just so damn expensive though. Even the AR50 is what, like $3500?

[MANOSTEEL00]

AR15 and running shoes.

+1

Already have my ultimate range setup. I'd rather take a sub-moa 5.56 than miss a target with a .50!

[Creature83]

Yeah. The guns are just so damn expensive though. Even the AR50 is what, like $3500?

I saw one the other day sell on snipers hide NIB for $2000 in 10mins. Gotta keep your eyes on those boards.

[untouchabledfx]

You're from Wyandotte, stfu!

You are from St. John's and workout at bally's

[Steak_n_Taters]

+1

Already have my ultimate range setup. I'd rather take a sub-moa 5.56 than miss a target with a .50!

Yeah but good luck getting out to 1500 yards with a 5.56

800 I'd believe, I've seen it (on youtube) but 800 is the minimum distance I'm talking about here.

Plus even at 800 5.56 would not have much of a chance at all of having any armor penetrating abilities.


I saw one the other day sell on snipers hide NIB for $2000 in 10mins. Gotta keep your eyes on those boards.

Yeah I do. I got a pretty decent mag deal a few days ago on AR15 EE (bunch of teflon coated 20 rounders I've been looking for). Need to expand the number of boards I watch/am a member of though.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Yeah but good luck getting out to 1500 yards with a 5.56

800 I'd believe, I've seen it (on youtube) but 800 is the minimum distance I'm talking about here.

Plus even at 800 5.56 would not have much of a chance at all of having any armor penetrating abilities.



Yeah I do. I got a pretty decent mag deal a few days ago on AR15 EE. Need to expand the number of boards I watch/am a member of though.

Good luck hitting anything at 1,500 meters with anything. People have done it, but there's a reason that it gets so much attention. Nobody is pulling that kind of thing on a regular basis on a man-sized target. That's supporting arms or crew served weapons distance, not even really sniper distance. If the M82 is pulling MOA like it's supposed to, and you're a perfect shot, you're still going to have a deviation of around 15 inches at that range, way off of the torso of a human being looking straight at you, and that's if you shoot it from a vice, the target is stationary, and there's no wind. Remember, the wind you feel at 0 meters is different than the wind that's going on at 1,500 meters out, even 300 meters out.

[Steak_n_Taters]

Good luck hitting anything at 1,500 meters with anything. People have done it, but there's a reason that it gets so much attention. Nobody is pulling that kind of thing on a regular basis on a man-sized target. That's supporting arms or crew served weapons distance, not even really sniper distance. If the M82 is pulling MOA like it's supposed to, and you're a perfect shot, you're still going to have a deviation of around 15 inches at that range, way off of the torso of a human being looking straight at you, and that's if you shoot it from a vice, the target is stationary, and there's no wind. Remember, the wind you feel at 0 meters is different than the wind that's going on at 1,500 meters out, even 300 meters out.

Yeah I mean I'm not gonna say I could do it lol, I'm just saying, there is a reason the guys who do take 1000+ yard shots use something bigger than 5.56.

[sugicalmike]

You are from St. John's and workout at bally's

Steve.... you know damned well that I would never workout at a Bally's.

Keep spreading those lies and you will have field research conducted on you with a .338

[MaqAtaq]

lol at .50BMG b/c at 1000m+ the .408 has more energy than .50BMG

seeing that .50 has a ****ton of energy that means .408 is retardedly powerful

[sugicalmike]

lol at .50BMG b/c at 1000m+ the .408 has more energy than .50BMG

seeing that .50 has a ****ton of energy that means .408 is retardedly powerful

retardedly powerful sounds right up my alley!

[Steak_n_Taters]

lol at .50BMG b/c at 1000m+ the .408 has more energy than .50BMG

seeing that .50 has a ****ton of energy that means .408 is retardedly powerful

I think it's because the BC of the .408 is higher than the 50, so it loses velocity more slowly, so at extreme range it retains energy better than the 50?

[Creature83]

I think it's because the BC of the .408 is higher than the 50, so it loses velocity more slowly, so at extreme range it retains energy better than the 50?

The BC is not higher than the 50 and it does not change at different ranges. A bullets BC is the same at 1 yard as it is 3000 yards. If the .408 was so great it would replace the 50. Quit drinking the kool aid.

[MANOSTEEL00]

Yeah but good luck getting out to 1500 yards with a 5.56

800 I'd believe, I've seen it (on youtube) but 800 is the minimum distance I'm talking about here.

Plus even at 800 5.56 would not have much of a chance at all of having any armor penetrating abilities.

LOL, with all do respect bro your comment is a bit extreme.

I'd be lucky to find a place where I'm able to shoot 500+. I have no desire to hit a target out to 1500m. I'll let the pro's try to go after that endeavor.

My ideal long range setup wouldn't exceed 500+m because I don't see any need for it. Even in a combat situation I wouldn't want to take a shot longer than that without proper training.

Different strokes for different folks =)

[KIDRR]

.338 lapua

Most people who know little to nothing about firearms will just say 50BMG because they've used it on a video game or saw it in a movie. I guess it also kind of depends on what you're using it for. The .338 is for anti personnel while the 50 is for anti material. 338 also has more projectile options if you're going to reload yourself at a lower price.


My buddy just got an AR30 and that thing is a tack driver for sure. It only weighs 12lbs vs I don't even know how much the 50 weighs but I'm sure it's considerbly more.

If you hit something 1000 yards away with either they will both be equally dead.

[KIDRR]

That being said, I'd probably never go with anything over .308 or .300wsm. I've hit targets out as far as 600 yards with my rem 700 in .308 but rarely on the first shot.

[Geno]

1500 is doable. It's not often done because outside influences mess things up but I can point to a Marine who did well over 2000 twice in one sitting CONFIRMED. He shot a bicycle out from under a kid mule because he didn't want to kill him and then center punched his dumb (and skinny) ass when he slapped a mag in a new ak and tried plinking at him. Carlos Hathcock.

Before I finished my a school at great lakes I was approached (in school) by a couple of slick looking dudes who pulled me out of class. I thought I was going to the brig the way they acted. Turned out they were looking for shooting talent.

A little background - I was born into a rich family in the Caribbean, torn from there and deposited into a dirt poor family in Central AL before I could get out of school and away and was required to hunt to provide food for my family. My evil first stepfather counted out rounds to me - I got exactly the number of rounds that the limit of whatever we were hunting was. I shot a stevens single shot .22 then. If I fired one more round than I brought game home - I was severely beaten. If I ruined a major part of said game I was just beaten. I soon learned to make a few dollars here and there and buy EXACTLY the same ammo the step-dad bought :D not stupid I was.

When I got to the point in boot where we fired a weapon - I thought everyone could shoot and was simply amazed at the idiocy around me. Not only could most of the folks IN OUR MILITARY not shoot, they didn't even know how to handle a firearm in a fukcing safe manner.

Anyway, I spent a small amount of time in a competitive shooting role (never brought home a decent trophy). I was 3rd to 1st on the b range and 12th to 8th on the pistol range out of 5000+/- people at NTC Great Lakes (that's out of 5000+/- people at any given time). I go to shoot in a major competition once and did not quite medal. What I did do was spend a lot of time trying to teach people to shoot moving targets at long range. I was and am very good at that particular thing (too bad competitions didn't involve moving targets lol). It's something of an art because the wind at twenty meters is different from the wind at eighty meters and different at one hundred fifty meters and different at three hundred twenty meters, etc.....

I rarely shoot past 100 yards these days. I plinked a magnificent turkey's spine at 235 yards with a deer rifle a decade ago, I hit a running coyote at 624 yards a couple years ago and I hit a running deer a few years ago at 415+/- yards on a bet.

I think too much thinking and planning goes into trying to shoot at long ranges these days in our military and not nearly enough just shooting at **** way off. Elmer Kieth shot deer at ranges that people today can't hit a 55 gallon drum at reliably, with a REVOLVER - when they were running.

[Steak_n_Taters]

The BC is not higher than the 50 and it does not change at different ranges. A bullets BC is the same at 1 yard as it is 3000 yards. If the .408 was so great it would replace the 50. Quit drinking the kool aid.

Eh, I was just guessing, I really don't know. I know the BC doesn't change. My research continues...


LOL, with all do respect bro your comment is a bit extreme.

I'd be lucky to find a place where I'm able to shoot 500+. I have no desire to hit a target out to 1500m. I'll let the pro's try to go after that endeavor.

My ideal long range setup wouldn't exceed 500+m because I don't see any need for it. Even in a combat situation I wouldn't want to take a shot longer than that without proper training.

Different strokes for different folks =)

Yeah, I mean I have a place I can shoot several miles if I wanted to. It'll be a while before I try and stretch things out past 500 though.

Longest shot I've killed a deer with was something like 250-270 yards with my dad's remington 700 BDL in 7mag. Real nice, accurate gun. I haven't really practiced past 300 though.


.338 lapua

My buddy just got an AR30 and that thing is a tack driver for sure. It only weighs 12lbs vs I don't even know how much the 50 weighs but I'm sure it's considerbly more.

If you hit something 1000 yards away with either they will both be equally dead.

Yeah this is what I'm leaning towards at the moment. I'm still probably at least a year away from buying anything, I have other purchases in the queue (couple more EBRs, a handgun or two, reloading equipment) but I'll get there eventually.

Really before I go to something like 338 I'll probably pick up a remington 700 police in .308 or something. I've already got a saiga .308 that's actually pretty dang accurate so I've got lots of ammo for it