Help with supps and some ideas for my routine

[Ftballplayer56]

I'm 19 years old and trying to get back into football. I've been out for 3 years and miss it like crazy. My goal is to get to play for at least a division 2 college team as MLB/OLB. Unfortunatly I'm a little small although willing to work my ass off. Right now I'm weighing in at 180 lbs 5'11 1/2-6'0, I'm running a 5.0 40 yard dash, Benching 200. At the moment im working out on a bowflex because that is all I could get my workout partner to do although he has agreed to start going to the gym after this month so we can do leg workouts. I'm supplementing with BSN Nitrix, NO-Xplode, higher power creatine ethyl ester. I'm also starting to take multi-vitamins soon as well as drinking 4 20g protein shakes a day and have begun taking flaxseed oil. All I eat is chicken, tuna, eggs, bananas, and peanuts. I'm just looking for any help i can get if anyone sees something wrong with anything I am doing, or has any imput on how i could maximize my results I would really appreciate it greatly. Thanks again.

[Badgers68]

Mass gainer, you need to get to 220 at a 4.8 or lower. Power cleans, Power squats, Vertimax, etc. Slam in about 200-230g of protein/ day and about 300 carbs/ day. BSN products are bull**** if you ask me. Go to Controlled labs White Flood and Green Mag. best **** to gain. Other than that, if it's really what you want, you gotta dig deep and work harder than hell to get to where you need before spring training. Good luck

[Badgers68]

Oh yea, one more thing. 5x5 that **** at 85%, big time muscle builder and strength gainer at least for me

[Ftballplayer56]

thanks for the input. Yea I started out with 5x5 and then read something that said to try doing just one set of 8-10 to fail and keep your workout under 45 minutes to get the best mass gains. So I've been trying that my max has gone up on most of my workouts since i switched, but i havent noticed much mass gain (although not on protein shakes yet and still havent been doing it for that long) So I think I might switch back to 5x5. Any idea where i could get one of those charts that tells you what you should be lifting based on your max? Oh yea one more thing, whats wrong with BSN? I've heard good things about them from some of my football buddies in HS but am open to changing Supplements.

[Badgers68]

Overpriced and they currently have quite a bit of lawsuits against them for exaggerating how much they put in some of their products. You are better off getting 1000g of AST micronized creatine mono (100-200 days worth), ZMA, Controlled Labs White Flood (best pre workout supp I've ever had), a Mass gainer with at least 50-60g of protein and over 600 calories, and a multi vitamin. That will probably be cheaper than what you have in BSN products and it will help you a **** ton more.

http://strengthtech.com/percentage/ thats a chart there

[Ftballplayer56]

okay just a couple more questions. One do i only take white flood on workout days before i workout or is it like No-Xplode where i take it everyday. And with ZMA it says not to use with calcium and every mass gainer i can find has at least some calcium ( lowest i found was 5%) so would that cause problems?

[dgcoats]

At 180 you may also want to try safety once you bulk up to 200ish and work on your speed/endurance. For all your training questions this is a good thread

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=7122761

As for supps, these are what I feel would be best for you

Either Prolab/Optimum Nutrition Creapure or MAN Orotine (the latter is my favorite)
Beta Alanine (I take Primaforce)
Kaizen 100% Whey Protein if you just want a whey, if you want a blend go to true protein . com and make your own for relatively cheap
Intrabolic (Not necessary, but will greatly aid in strength/performance gains)
A multi

If you feel you really need a pre workout White Flood like Badger said is a good option (I never had it, but plenty swear by it). ZMA IMO isn't worth it. It really only helps sleep, and Melatonin does that more effectively and for cheaper (ON melatonin is great). Also, make your own gainer as it is a lot cheaper and healthier. The de facto formula for a homemade is 160z skim milk, two scoops protein, 1 cup oats, some fruit, and 2 tbsp peanut butter (don't add the pb if taken post workout).

EDIT: White Flood is pre workout only

[Ftballplayer56]

Yea saftey is deffinatly my next choice for sure. The only thing is I never actually played saftey so at my age walking onto a d2 football team for a position i've never played could be a little rough, on a side note I do know the game of football pretty well so i'm sure i could make the transition. Right now I plan on ordering White Flood, Higher Power Ultimate Mass, ZMA (although not decided), NO2 pills I would like to take Pinnacle NOx2 but seeing as how its sold out i was thinking about giving SciFit Nox 3000 a try.I had a two a day multi vitamin picked out as well. I plan on taking 3 shakes a day 2 sets of 3 pills of the NO2, white flood pre-workout, and multi vitamins in morning and night, as well as a flaxseed oil pill with every meal. Would it really be worth it to make my own mass builder? I would be fairly new to that and a bit afraid of messing it up.

[Ftballplayer56]

So I am having some trouble finding a mass builder that isnt going to break my wallet. Any ideas? so far higher power Ultimate mass builder is the best I can find, but unfortunatly it only has 600 calories and i was hoping for some more.

[DeathByBacker]

A few things...

1. You don't need a heavy mass gainer. Colleges would rather have a small guy who's in shape, than a big guy who's fat. IMO the best weight gainer is Muscle Milk. But honestly, weight gainers are just protein shakes with added sugar and fat. So if you can just eat more clean food, that would not only save you some money but it'd be better for your body and for your weight gain.

2. ZMA's are not necessary. I do like them, but if you're on a budget I'd scrap them. And yes taking them with calcium will be a problem. Calcium will block the absorption of the ZMA's. That doesn't mean you can't have any calcium, just don't have any around the time you're taking your vitamins, ZMA's, whatever.

3. You don't need to take NO Xplode everyday. That wastes your money. Studies show if you take it everyday your body adapts and the NO Xplode loses it's effectiveness. I'd recommend only taking it on workout days.

4. Don't feel like you HAVE to have a protein shake because everyone seems to take one. If you get enough protein from food alone, don't waste your money on whey.

5. Buy Glutamine. It's not too expensive and lasts a while. It strenthens the white blood cells and boosts your immune system so you don't get sick as easy. This is good for the winter because when you workout your immune system falls drastically. If you then step outside in the cold, you're leaving yourself open to sickness of any kind. Glutamine is the only product I havn't gone without over the last 3-4 years.

[Grind4Mine]

Alright bro, let me set you straight

Get off the overpriced supplement bandwagon..Protein and lots of it, creatine, multi, fish oil, nodoz is all you need

If you want to play football at the college level, your going to have to get serious in the kitchen, weightroom, and gym floor doing agility/plyos

Eat, lift heavy ass weight in an explosive matter, eat, eat, eat, plo/agility, eat eat eat, sleep...wakeup repeat

PM if you need a specific diet or workout advice

[Grind4Mine]

So I am having some trouble finding a mass builder that isnt going to break my wallet. Any ideas? so far higher power Ultimate mass builder is the best I can find, but unfortunatly it only has 600 calories and i was hoping for some more.

**** all the sugary mass gainers....Once a day, 40 grams whey, 3 cups milk, tablespoon peanut buter, half cup quick oats. half cup strawberries, there is your mass gainer

[dgcoats]

A NO and ZMA are worthless, trust me. As I've said before ZMA just helps sleep, and Melatonin is a better option for that. NOs are for pumps and vascularity, neither of which are of practical importance for athletes. You really should invest in a creatine, such as Creapure, and then mix it with some gatorade powder. You wont find a mass gainer that is light on your wallet. Homeade gainers are your best option for reasons I've already stated, but if you really want an already made one look at PVL's Mutant Mass. Solid profile, and if you do a quick google search you can find it for 50ish bucks. If you are confused about making your own gainer, again, google is your friend. I've also found some good recipes on youtube.

[dgcoats]

I agree with the first three points, but 4 and 5

4. Don't feel like you HAVE to have a protein shake because everyone seems to take one. If you get enough protein from food alone, don't waste your money on whey.

5. Buy Glutamine. It's not too expensive and lasts a while. It strenthens the white blood cells and boosts your immune system so you don't get sick as easy. This is good for the winter because when you workout your immune system falls drastically. If you then step outside in the cold, you're leaving yourself open to sickness of any kind. Glutamine is the only product I havn't gone without over the last 3-4 years.

are wrong (sort of). It is best for one to get protein from whole foods rather than supplements, but there are certain times during the day when protein shakes are better than whole food, such as upon waking and 45 mins before/after a workout.

Also, oral glutamine supplementation is WORTHLESS.

Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

-----------------------------------------------

J Strength Cond Res 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60
The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance

Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C.

Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, USA.

The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean +/- SE: age, 21.5 +/- 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 +/- 2.8 kg(-1)) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g x kg(-1)) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.

[DeathByBacker]

Glutamine doesn't do much for the muscles, you're right. But it is good for the immune system, which is what I had initially mentioned. You can't (shouldn't) work out if you're sick, so the best cure for sickness is to not get sick in the first place.

[dgcoats]

Glutamine doesn't do much for the muscles, you're right. But it is good for the immune system, which is what I had initially mentioned. You can't (shouldn't) work out if you're sick, so the best cure for sickness is to not get sick in the first place.


Oh, I missed that. I'm in class, so I'm readin quickly :o. Well, it doesn't help much for that either.


Immediately after the marathon, the runners' lymphocytes decreased by 30 per cent, and their 'natural killer' cells (special white blood cells which directly attack pathogens) dipped by 85 per cent, changes which persisted until the following day. Glutamine was unable to prevent these negative changes. Other studies have suggested that glutamine and its close relatives, the branched-chain amino acids, might be helpful in preserving immune system vigour in athletes engaged in heavy training, but it's clear that this protective effect, if it is real, is not the result of glutamine's preservation of normal immune-cell numbers

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0381.htm

[DeathByBacker]

"Glutamine may serve to boost your immune system. For bodybuilders, this is important since heavy workouts tend to greatly deplete Glutamine levels. (Glutamine is a primary energy source for your immune system.)"

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/glutamine.htm


Whenever it comes to supplements there's going to be articles for and against everything. And no one article is correct. Sometimes people don't see results from even the best supplements, and some people get amazing results without any supplements at all.
To the OP, experiment with some of these safe supplements and if something works, use it. If not, don't use it. There's going to be different affects for everyone who uses these supplements, so the best way to find out what works for you is to use it.

[biggin66]

You really don't need much more size if you plan on playing as a DB at a D-2 school. I would really work on my speed and agility if I were you. At your height and weight a 4.7 forty would be what I would set my goal to. I think that is realistic and achievable for you. As far as strength and mass gains in the weight room I was a heavy heavy lifter. I loved doing 5x3 on bench. I would start off with a weight that you know you wont be able to do by yourself on the last set. Once you get to the point that you can do all sets and reps with that weight add five pounds and do that the next time. Only go up on your weight if you complete all your reps and sets. Worked for me. Any other questions feel free to ask.