Water depletion

[ax3]

Ok here is the deal, how can i completely dehydrate myself, for a competition? keep in mind that i don't use suppliments so hydroxycut and all that other stuff is a no go......
My previous competitions i just abstained but it seems like my body still retained the little it had.....any suggestions?

[scoobysnacks]

You way of thinking is wrong on so many levels it would take me a book to get you right, but check out this thread, it will get you in the proper direction.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=182776851#post182776851

I will leave you with this, drying out is really about carb loading, not just dropping water. You load on carbs and decrease water. The carbs will then pull the water from the sub q.

Jason

[str8flexed]

this is from a blog I wrote on my site http://www.biolayne.com

What can we do if we get to the day before or dare I say the day of the show and for whatever reason we are holding water? Most people would say ‘cut water’ or ‘take a diuretic. I would have to disagree with that.

What you have to remember is that even if you are holding water under the skin, cutting water is not the best way to get rid of it. If you are holding water under the skin & you cut it then you are just going to increase aldosterone even more and reabsorb more water from the nephrons into the interstitial space. When you cut water or take a diuretic you will not be able to control where you take it from… it is going to come out of muscle and out of the subcutaneous tissue; the problem is it's going to come out in the same ratio contained by the two areas. If we think about Le Chatelier's principle we can start to make sense of it. For those of you who haven’t had a lot of chemistry, Le Chatelier's principle can be used to predict the effect of a change in conditions on a chemical equilibrium. It can be summarized as: “If a chemical system at equilibrium experiences achange in concentration, temperature, volume, or total pressure; the equilibrium will shift in order to partially counter-act the imposed change.” For example, let’s say we have 2 reactions: A ----> B-----> C. If you remove C, then you will accelerate the conversion of B to C, and also accelerate the conversion of A to B. PULLING the reaction forward. Now if you reduce the amount of A, then the conversion of A to be will slow and therefore, the movement of B to C will also slow in order to maintain equilibrium. By the same token, let's look at water distribution assuming A is water in the muscle, B is water in the interstitial space, and C is water in the kidneys. If you take a diuretic to increase water excretion, (in our example, removal of C) you will therefore accelerate the removal of B (interstitial) but you will also accelerate the removal of A at the same rate to maintain equilibrium. The ratio of water in each compartment stays the same, all you have managed to do is reduce water in all departments and flatten yourself out. So what happens if we cut water? If you cut water then you are reducing the input of A into the system. This will reduce the movement of A into B, and will subsequently reduce the movement of B into C. In this case the kidney totally restricts it’s excretion of water due to the reduced input in order to maintain equilibrium. Again the distribution of water in the compartments is unchanged, there is just less water everywhere and so you are just flatter everywhere.
So what do you do? You’ve only got days or worst case, hours until you have be onstage and you have to tighten up. What can you do? Your best bet is to MOVE the water by changing the equilibrium. That is taking the water from the interstitial space and moving it into the muscle tissue. The best way to do that is to start doing a good hard pump up workout for anywhere to 20-40 minutes. There is no need to go heavy, just a circuit with lighter weights to get a really good pump going. This is going to do a few things

1) Increase blood flow and blood pressure helping to push water from the interstitial area into the vascular system.

2) Upregulate skeletal muscle GLUT-4 receptors, causing your muscle to pull more glucose from the interstitial space into the muscle and a lot of water along with it

3) It will increase perspiration, which isn't always a good thing but if you are in fact holding water it may help get rid of excess water in subcutaneous tissue.

So what happened to our mystery man who was holding water? Well he didn’t cut water, he didn’t take a diuretic, he just did a nice circuit training routine the night before the show and then again the morning of the show. That night he called me to tell me he tightened up and won his show. Don’t thank me though… thank Henry Louis Le Chatelier. Who would have known a dead French geek from the late 1800s would be helping people win bodybuilding shows in the 21st century?

[str8flexed]

more...

One thing I always fine funny is the looks my clients get at their shows. None of my clients water deplete, and most of them drink 1-2 gallons of water on show day. They always get strange looks and people asking them if they are concerned about 'retaining water.'
In our natural state we actually have MORE water inside our cells than outside our cells (subcutaneous water). It is when you screw with things that you start getting problems. People seem to have this notion that if they cut water, they will lose all their subcutaneous water. There are a few problems with this: 1) You won't just lose water from the subcutaneous area, you will also lose it out of the muscle tissue, and you will most likely lose MORE from the muscle than from the subcutaneous layer as the body will attempt to maintain the water balance between the inside & outside of the cell. 2) You will flatten yourself out big time. The only reason a carb load works is because the increased glycogen causes your cells to store more water. All you have really done is flatten yourself out, you haven't changed the ratio of intracellular/extracellular water at all.

I know what you are thinking "but Layne, at my last show a judge said I needed to be drier" or "everyone tells me I just need to lose the water." Well I'm not here to make you feel better about yourself, I'm here to help you do better at your next show. And the truth is that people are telling you that you are 'holding water' because they don't want to hurt your feelings. The fact of the matter is that you weren't 'holding water' you just weren't lean enough. Period.
Look at team Scivation member's Kurt Weidner and Ben Goins at 3 weeks before a show. They are 'drier' than 99.99% of people who compete ever will be. No water manipulation, no sodium manipulation, nothing. How can they look so dry when they haven't changed a thing from their normal diet? What is their secret. Well listen very closely because I'm only going to tell you the secret once. The big secret is THEY ARE EXTREMELY LEAN! They gave themselves long enough to diet and they were honest with themselves about how much fat they needed to lose. That's the secret. Get shredded and very little of that final week stuff is needed.

Most people don't realize that the big reason all these complex final week protocols came about was simply marketing from pre-contest prep 'gurus'. If it was as simple as just getting shredded, how would these guys stay in business? They make their clients feel like they 'need' them because these guys have their clients manipulating fifteen hundred variables in the last week. How could they possibly do that on their own? And thus, they feel like they need their 'guru'. You would be surprised at how many clients I probably lose because my approach is so simple, but I'm not in this to make money dishonestly. The secret is simple, give yourself enough time to diet, be honest with yourself about how much bodyfat you have to lose, and GET SHREDDED! Period.

Til next time,
-Layne

[semper27]

more...

One thing I always fine funny is the looks my clients get at their shows. None of my clients water deplete, and most of them drink 1-2 gallons of water on show day. They always get strange looks and people asking them if they are concerned about 'retaining water.'
In our natural state we actually have MORE water inside our cells than outside our cells (subcutaneous water). It is when you screw with things that you start getting problems. People seem to have this notion that if they cut water, they will lose all their subcutaneous water. There are a few problems with this: 1) You won't just lose water from the subcutaneous area, you will also lose it out of the muscle tissue, and you will most likely lose MORE from the muscle than from the subcutaneous layer as the body will attempt to maintain the water balance between the inside & outside of the cell. 2) You will flatten yourself out big time. The only reason a carb load works is because the increased glycogen causes your cells to store more water. All you have really done is flatten yourself out, you haven't changed the ratio of intracellular/extracellular water at all.

I know what you are thinking "but Layne, at my last show a judge said I needed to be drier" or "everyone tells me I just need to lose the water." Well I'm not here to make you feel better about yourself, I'm here to help you do better at your next show. And the truth is that people are telling you that you are 'holding water' because they don't want to hurt your feelings. The fact of the matter is that you weren't 'holding water' you just weren't lean enough. Period.
Look at team Scivation member's Kurt Weidner and Ben Goins at 3 weeks before a show. They are 'drier' than 99.99% of people who compete ever will be. No water manipulation, no sodium manipulation, nothing. How can they look so dry when they haven't changed a thing from their normal diet? What is their secret. Well listen very closely because I'm only going to tell you the secret once. The big secret is THEY ARE EXTREMELY LEAN! They gave themselves long enough to diet and they were honest with themselves about how much fat they needed to lose. That's the secret. Get shredded and very little of that final week stuff is needed.

Most people don't realize that the big reason all these complex final week protocols came about was simply marketing from pre-contest prep 'gurus'. If it was as simple as just getting shredded, how would these guys stay in business? They make their clients feel like they 'need' them because these guys have their clients manipulating fifteen hundred variables in the last week. How could they possibly do that on their own? And thus, they feel like they need their 'guru'. You would be surprised at how many clients I probably lose because my approach is so simple, but I'm not in this to make money dishonestly. The secret is simple, give yourself enough time to diet, be honest with yourself about how much bodyfat you have to lose, and GET SHREDDED! Period.

Til next time,
-LayneX 1,000,000 :D

[ax3]

You way of thinking is wrong on so many levels it would take me a book to get you right, but check out this thread, it will get you in the proper direction.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=182776851#post182776851

I will leave you with this, drying out is really about carb loading, not just dropping water. You load on carbs and decrease water. The carbs will then pull the water from the sub q.

Jason
My way of thinking is wrong?.....some one needs to work on his social skills, but thank you for trying to help.....and that post makes a lot of sense, i'll adjust a lil

[ax3]

this is from a blog I wrote on my site http://www.biolayne.com

What can we do if we get to the day before or dare I say the day of the show and for whatever reason we are holding water? Most people would say ?cut water? or ?take a diuretic. I would have to disagree with that.

What you have to remember is that even if you are holding water under the skin, cutting water is not the best way to get rid of it. If you are holding water under the skin & you cut it then you are just going to increase aldosterone even more and reabsorb more water from the nephrons into the interstitial space. When you cut water or take a diuretic you will not be able to control where you take it from? it is going to come out of muscle and out of the subcutaneous tissue; the problem is it's going to come out in the same ratio contained by the two areas. If we think about Le Chatelier's principle we can start to make sense of it. For those of you who haven?t had a lot of chemistry, Le Chatelier's principle can be used to predict the effect of a change in conditions on a chemical equilibrium. It can be summarized as: ?If a chemical system at equilibrium experiences achange in concentration, temperature, volume, or total pressure; the equilibrium will shift in order to partially counter-act the imposed change.? For example, let?s say we have 2 reactions: A ----> B-----> C. If you remove C, then you will accelerate the conversion of B to C, and also accelerate the conversion of A to B. PULLING the reaction forward. Now if you reduce the amount of A, then the conversion of A to be will slow and therefore, the movement of B to C will also slow in order to maintain equilibrium. By the same token, let's look at water distribution assuming A is water in the muscle, B is water in the interstitial space, and C is water in the kidneys. If you take a diuretic to increase water excretion, (in our example, removal of C) you will therefore accelerate the removal of B (interstitial) but you will also accelerate the removal of A at the same rate to maintain equilibrium. The ratio of water in each compartment stays the same, all you have managed to do is reduce water in all departments and flatten yourself out. So what happens if we cut water? If you cut water then you are reducing the input of A into the system. This will reduce the movement of A into B, and will subsequently reduce the movement of B into C. In this case the kidney totally restricts it?s excretion of water due to the reduced input in order to maintain equilibrium. Again the distribution of water in the compartments is unchanged, there is just less water everywhere and so you are just flatter everywhere.
So what do you do? You?ve only got days or worst case, hours until you have be onstage and you have to tighten up. What can you do? Your best bet is to MOVE the water by changing the equilibrium. That is taking the water from the interstitial space and moving it into the muscle tissue. The best way to do that is to start doing a good hard pump up workout for anywhere to 20-40 minutes. There is no need to go heavy, just a circuit with lighter weights to get a really good pump going. This is going to do a few things

1) Increase blood flow and blood pressure helping to push water from the interstitial area into the vascular system.

2) Upregulate skeletal muscle GLUT-4 receptors, causing your muscle to pull more glucose from the interstitial space into the muscle and a lot of water along with it

3) It will increase perspiration, which isn't always a good thing but if you are in fact holding water it may help get rid of excess water in subcutaneous tissue.

So what happened to our mystery man who was holding water? Well he didn?t cut water, he didn?t take a diuretic, he just did a nice circuit training routine the night before the show and then again the morning of the show. That night he called me to tell me he tightened up and won his show. Don?t thank me though? thank Henry Louis Le Chatelier. Who would have known a dead French geek from the late 1800s would be helping people win bodybuilding shows in the 21st century?


more...

One thing I always fine funny is the looks my clients get at their shows. None of my clients water deplete, and most of them drink 1-2 gallons of water on show day. They always get strange looks and people asking them if they are concerned about 'retaining water.'
In our natural state we actually have MORE water inside our cells than outside our cells (subcutaneous water). It is when you screw with things that you start getting problems. People seem to have this notion that if they cut water, they will lose all their subcutaneous water. There are a few problems with this: 1) You won't just lose water from the subcutaneous area, you will also lose it out of the muscle tissue, and you will most likely lose MORE from the muscle than from the subcutaneous layer as the body will attempt to maintain the water balance between the inside & outside of the cell. 2) You will flatten yourself out big time. The only reason a carb load works is because the increased glycogen causes your cells to store more water. All you have really done is flatten yourself out, you haven't changed the ratio of intracellular/extracellular water at all.

I know what you are thinking "but Layne, at my last show a judge said I needed to be drier" or "everyone tells me I just need to lose the water." Well I'm not here to make you feel better about yourself, I'm here to help you do better at your next show. And the truth is that people are telling you that you are 'holding water' because they don't want to hurt your feelings. The fact of the matter is that you weren't 'holding water' you just weren't lean enough. Period.
Look at team Scivation member's Kurt Weidner and Ben Goins at 3 weeks before a show. They are 'drier' than 99.99% of people who compete ever will be. No water manipulation, no sodium manipulation, nothing. How can they look so dry when they haven't changed a thing from their normal diet? What is their secret. Well listen very closely because I'm only going to tell you the secret once. The big secret is THEY ARE EXTREMELY LEAN! They gave themselves long enough to diet and they were honest with themselves about how much fat they needed to lose. That's the secret. Get shredded and very little of that final week stuff is needed.

Most people don't realize that the big reason all these complex final week protocols came about was simply marketing from pre-contest prep 'gurus'. If it was as simple as just getting shredded, how would these guys stay in business? They make their clients feel like they 'need' them because these guys have their clients manipulating fifteen hundred variables in the last week. How could they possibly do that on their own? And thus, they feel like they need their 'guru'. You would be surprised at how many clients I probably lose because my approach is so simple, but I'm not in this to make money dishonestly. The secret is simple, give yourself enough time to diet, be honest with yourself about how much bodyfat you have to lose, and GET SHREDDED! Period.

Til next time,
-Layne


Thank you, no one has ever said i retained water, that was my own conclusion... i am have particpated in 4 comps and have never gone on a diet for them...this upcoming one is the first time i have tried a diet of any sort and thats just because i thought i might look a lil different if i tried it, the results on sunday will determine if i ever do another diet.
I 'll try your method for the next one Thanks again

[str8flexed]

you never dieted before a show? :confused:

[tvicemanXXL]

you never dieted before a show? :confused:

Hi, I'd like you to meet Flex Wheeler's genetically modified son. To him, sleep = cardio.

[ax3]

you never dieted before a show? :confused:

nope never did, just started doing cardio...even now the diet i am on started last tuesday 22nd and my comp is on the 3rd

[ax3]

Hi, I'd like you to meet Flex Wheeler's genetically modified son. To him, sleep = cardio.

Is there an idiot button somewhere?...........Just had a BF measurement done...5.5% and prior i have never been measured over 11%, so i guess you can call me Lucky

[dogg74]

[QUOTE=str8flexed;198571701]you never dieted before a show? :confused:[/QUOTE

WOOOOW! Never dieted! HMMMMMM must have super genetics at 239 lbs

[dogg74]

Is there an idiot button somewhere?...........Just had a BF measurement done...5.5% and prior i have never been measured over 11%, so i guess you can call me Lucky

sounds impressive. You should post a few pics. you must be some genetic freak. nonetheless. cutting water is not recommended. Good luck come showtime!

[semper27]

Is there an idiot button somewhere?...........Just had a BF measurement done...5.5% and prior i have never been measured over 11%, so i guess you can call me LuckyBe sure to add 2-3 points to that reading if the measurements were done by a caliper. :D Post some pics!

[brademan76]

Post some pics already...

[ax3]

sounds impressive. You should post a few pics. you must be some genetic freak. nonetheless. cutting water is not recommended. Good luck come showtime!


Be sure to add 2-3 points to that reading if the measurements were done by a caliper. :D Post some pics!


Post some pics already...

Will do

[ax3]

Ok i put my first and 2nd competition pics up ...

[dogg74]

Everyone has different opinions.... and imo.. Dont cut it out


Attached Images INBF World Championships 11-10-07 012.jpg (37.3 KB, 222 views)
teamnorton2-jlb.JPG (20.9 KB, 224 views)
3.5 weeks out abs 004.jpg (137.0 KB, 210 views)
ben3.JPG (94.5 KB, 198 views)
flynn-back.JPG (324.6 KB, 193 views)

[yzrider400f]

this is from a blog I wrote on my site http://www.biolayne.com

you should probably just leave this this copied to your clipboard 24/7

ax3, i'd love to see some pics of 5% bf without any dieting :)

[devo09]

you should probably just leave this this copied to your clipboard 24/7

ax3, i'd love to see some pics of 5% bf without any dieting :)

lol ya 5%BF at 239...

[ax3]

you should probably just leave this this copied to your clipboard 24/7

ax3, i'd love to see some pics of 5% bf without any dieting :)

naah i did diet this time and i am 231 shooting for 225 by sunday...when i didn't diet was always between 7 & 11%

Read post #7 again

[ax3]

lol ya 5%BF at 239...

231..yes that i am