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View Full Version : how does eating too little not cause weight loss?



Fozzy13
07-07-2008, 04:01 PM
Topic.

Wowzer
07-07-2008, 04:06 PM
Topic.

It doesn't. Lot's of people will try and tell you about 'starvation mode' where you body drastically drops it's metabolic rate to stop weight loss. While this does occur to some extent, it's not as large as people make out.

Very low calorie diets, in the region of 800-1200 calories a day, are used extremely effectively in the clinical world to rapidly drop weight from severely obese patients.

The bad thing about very low calorie is you will lose a larger proportion of muscle mass than is desirable. So for a person who is just overweight, having a slight calorie deficit is more beneficial to preserve lean mass and drop fat. Also a slow weight loss is more sustainable in the long term.

sbbc
07-07-2008, 04:37 PM
like the above poster mentioned.. it does cause weight loss.. but includes lean body mass loss and fat.

so if you like the anorexic or skinny fat look then go for it, just remember that if you stop the severe calorie restriction then you'll probably gain all the weight back and then some.. but as fat.. the muscle won't come back as quickly if at all).. so in the end you'll be fatter than before at the same weight (or heavier).

The_Contrarian
07-07-2008, 04:49 PM
It doesn't. Lot's of people will try and tell you about 'starvation mode' where you body drastically drops it's metabolic rate to stop weight loss. While this does occur to some extent, it's not as large as people make out.

Very low calorie diets, in the region of 800-1200 calories a day, are used extremely effectively in the clinical world to rapidly drop weight from severely obese patients.

The bad thing about very low calorie is you will lose a larger proportion of muscle mass than is desirable. So for a person who is just overweight, having a slight calorie deficit is more beneficial to preserve lean mass and drop fat. Also a slow weight loss is more sustainable in the long term.

Easily mitigated with a high protein diet. Protein Sparing Modified Fast diet that was used in a clinical trial to treat obese subjects was effective in dropping fat mass while increasing lean mass (they were on like 1000 calories a day), pure protein, no carbs diet.

Wowzer
07-07-2008, 04:53 PM
Easily mitigated with a high protein diet. Protein Sparing Modified Fast diet that was used in a clinical trial to treat obese subjects was effective in dropping fat mass while increasing lean mass (they were on like 1000 calories a day), pure protein, no carbs diet.

True, and since most people on this board are also doing some form of resistance training, the loss of lean mass will be even more minimal. Or as you said, could even gain lean mass.

Mike263
07-07-2008, 07:53 PM
Lyle McDonald says to lift to prevent the muscle loss while restricting calories.

ElayneTrakand
07-07-2008, 07:57 PM
True, and since most people on this board are also doing some form of resistance training, the loss of lean mass will be even more minimal. Or as you said, could even gain lean mass.

Most people on this board claim to only be a few hundred calories out of deficit but still lose muscle while losing weight as well even though everyone here on these boards knows to take lots and lots of protein.

canuhandleit
07-07-2008, 08:28 PM
It does cause weight loss, but it also causes muscle loss. I know this because i've experienced it without even releasing. I wanted to lose weight so bad last year, I went from 170 to 158 and looked WORSE than I looked at 170 because I was eating way way way too little and running anyhwere from 4-13 miles 3x a week while training for a half marathon.

Fozzy13
07-07-2008, 09:23 PM
It does cause weight loss, but it also causes muscle loss. I know this because i've experienced it without even releasing. I wanted to lose weight so bad last year, I went from 170 to 158 and looked WORSE than I looked at 170 because I was eating way way way too little and running anyhwere from 4-13 miles 3x a week while training for a half marathon.

yea, when i initially lost the weight i didnt lift and just did cardio to lose weight and now i look terrible. Im trying to fix that by trying to lose 25lbs of fat and get down to about 150lbs then bulk back up to 175.

timperry
07-07-2008, 10:41 PM
As long as you are continuing to lift heavy and eating enough protein, i doubt you will see much muscle loss

SpiceAddict
07-07-2008, 10:52 PM
so if you like the anorexic or skinny fat look then go for it, just remember that if you stop the severe calorie restriction then you'll probably gain all the weight back and then some.. but as fat.. the muscle won't come back as quickly if at all).. so in the end you'll be fatter than before at the same weight (or heavier).


I put myself on a 1000 calorie a day diet and lost 90 lbs in 6 months. Yes I lost some muscle, but I by no means look anywhere near anorexic, the majority of weight lost was fat. and I now eat a 2500 calorie diet (on a cut) and the weight is dropping about 2 lbs a week. when I did eat more than needed, my weight did not drastically balloon up like you suggest, I put on weight by the amount I ate and I lose by how much I don't eat. My muscle that I did lose is coming back just nicely.

Think before you post broscience.

quest55720
07-07-2008, 11:59 PM
I put myself on a 1000 calorie a day diet and lost 90 lbs in 6 months. Yes I lost some muscle, but I by no means look anywhere near anorexic, the majority of weight lost was fat. and I now eat a 2500 calorie diet (on a cut) and the weight is dropping about 2 lbs a week. when I did eat more than needed, my weight did not drastically balloon up like you suggest, I put on weight by the amount I ate and I lose by how much I don't eat. My muscle that I did lose is coming back just nicely.

Think before you post broscience.

Everyone is different I am glad it worked for you. It did not work in my case I just pissed away muscle and months of hard work. I am still paying the price of to few calories and to much cardio. It is something I will never try again because it simply does not work for me.

SpiceAddict
07-08-2008, 12:15 AM
Everyone is different I am glad it worked for you. It did not work in my case I just pissed away muscle and months of hard work. I am still paying the price of to few calories and to much cardio. It is something I will never try again because it simply does not work for me.

It worked for me, but it did have its consequences. I was just pointing out that he was making a big exaggeration that seems common on the boards. And I never did any cardio, I was towing big rigs :D I realize everyone is different, but to state such broad exaggerations is unnecessary.

scrummie2
07-08-2008, 12:31 AM
Yeah, what people said on muscle loss. The issue being of course that it is hard as hell to add muscle mass, much harder then it is to lose it in my opinion, and although the canned advice is "cut first, worry about bulking later" given the amount of time it takes me to add new muscle mass I'd rather lose weight slowly and not risk catabolism then just drop 50 pounds in two months and then worry about bulking.

The thing is everyone has different bodies, and you have to cut long enough to figure out what works for you. I can run a 1200 calories deficit and not drop any muscle as long as I take in enough protein, I've found. Any more than that and I start feeling weak in the gym. The key for me is to journal and have a good database of information so that you can conduct informed analysis on what your body can support. Just because some other guy can only run a 500 calorie deficit before dropping into starvation mode doesn't mean that is what will happen to you, you got to figure it out based on your own physiology.

gorilla69
07-08-2008, 12:38 AM
because the world sucks

BuckSpin
07-08-2008, 02:57 AM
Was on a roughly 1200-1400 cal/day intake for 3 months. Very high protein, low carb, extremely low fat. Check out the Before & After pictures in my Profile to see how much muscle mass I lost.

Tlee055
07-08-2008, 03:31 AM
Bloody'ell BuckSpin you lost so much weight for so a short time well done.

Lift062406
07-08-2008, 09:15 AM
Try to lift 6 days a week for 30-45 min, 30g protein every 3 hours, cut carbs to 50g, keep the fat to cheese and almonds, no cardio.

mpipes
07-08-2008, 10:02 AM
Was on a roughly 1200-1400 cal/day intake for 3 months. Very high protein, low carb, extremely low fat. Check out the Before & After pictures in my Profile to see how much muscle mass I lost.

Proof in the pudding there, awesome job man!

stealth_maven
07-08-2008, 10:37 AM
Proof in the pudding there, awesome job man!

Why extremely low fat? That's a dumb move.

Tlee055
07-08-2008, 10:49 AM
Amazing results tho! Looks like it worked for him, I'm still pretty amazed, Every day he would of noticed a slight difference.

BuckSpin
07-08-2008, 02:40 PM
Bloody'ell BuckSpin you lost so much weight for so a short time well done.

Thanks! I worked very hard at it, and it came off faster than even I expected.

BuckSpin
07-08-2008, 02:44 PM
Why extremely low fat? That's a dumb move.

Logical - I provided a LOT of protein and not a lot of carbs. My body went looking for fat sources & found a huge, unlimited supply - me! Temper that with all the circuit style work I was doing (a LOT of bodyweight, low dumbbell & resistance bands) and it came off. I think my After picture (and my most recent "Spiderman" one) shows I didn't come out of it "skinny fat" or depleted.

canuhandleit
07-08-2008, 02:52 PM
Lol, if you did it the right way, you would have ended up with a lot more muscle on your frame. But I guess whatever works, works. Some people don't mind sacrificing muscle for a quick fat loss cycle.

mpipes
07-08-2008, 04:54 PM
The dude's 6' tall and 190lbs, he's got PLENTY of muscle as it is.

blapblapblow
07-08-2008, 05:06 PM
Was on a roughly 1200-1400 cal/day intake for 3 months. Very high protein, low carb, extremely low fat. Check out the Before & After pictures in my Profile to see how much muscle mass I lost.

Whenever you low carb, you have to up your fats. You didnt = muscle loss
You do look great at your age though - props

ultragymrat
07-08-2008, 05:35 PM
Whenever you low carb, you have to up your fats. You didnt = muscle loss
You do look great at your age though - props

...can you elaborate? I hear ya', but I do low cal, low carb, low fat, high protein and am interested to hear your reasoning for fat intake.

As to the original question I agree with The_Contrarian...is that an oxymoron?

BuckSpin
07-08-2008, 07:09 PM
The dude's 6' tall and 190lbs, he's got PLENTY of muscle as it is.

I'm busting my tail to have "that" build! And thanks for the compliment!


You do look great at your age though - props

LOL! Thanks! Hard to believe it was only about 150 days ago I was the "Before". I honestly have trouble remembering it.

mpipes
07-08-2008, 10:02 PM
Whenever you low carb, you have to up your fats.


That's not a de-facto standard requirement of low carb dieting.

Increasing fat intake is a way for some people to make their restricted diet more tolerable because fat is filling and makes food taste better, but if the greatest calorie deficit is required, lowered fat intake along with lowered carb intake and plenty of protein is the way to go. This is what's known as protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) where between increased protein intake, lifting and minimal cardio work, muscle mass is spared while fat is stripped away at lightning speed.

scrilla
07-08-2008, 10:25 PM
That's not a de-facto standard requirement of low carb dieting.

Increasing fat intake is a way for some people to make their restricted diet more tolerable because fat is filling and makes food taste better, but if the greatest calorie deficit is required, lowered fat intake along with lowered carb intake and plenty of protein is the way to go. This is what's known as protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) where between increased protein intake, lifting and minimal cardio work, muscle mass is spared while fat is stripped away at lightning speed.


If i went on a high protein, low carb, low fat diet, what would i use for energy? Protein? I would rather eat more fats and save the protein, by using fat for energy. Read BuckSpin's post. He went high protein, low carb, low fat and lost mega muscle

MRT4R
07-08-2008, 10:45 PM
I'm busting my tail to have "that" build! And thanks for the compliment!



LOL! Thanks! Hard to believe it was only about 150 days ago I was the "Before". I honestly have trouble remembering it.


Thats awesome dude. I bet your whole world is different! I bet people treat you different! Just phenominal

BuckSpin
07-09-2008, 04:00 AM
I would rather eat more fats and save the protein, by using fat for energy.

Thats what happened. Fat for energy from my diet or my fat stores, its still fat for energy.

We did do BF%s (digital scale in bare feet). Based on what the mirror is saying I'd say these are pretty reasonable/close. This might help:

Start of program:
At 268.8 I was *sigh* 42.8% BF = 115lbs of fat
End of program (weigh in at 11 weeks)
At 210.6 I was 18% BF = 38lbs of fat

So:
From 268.8 to 210.6 I lost 58.2lbs total, BUT based on the BF readings I lost 77lbs of fat. How can I have lost more fat than weight? Hmmmm....

Answer? I swapped almost 19lbs of fat for muscle over those 11 weeks.

FWIW, I also (based on a number of criteria/descriptions I've read about) think that under all that blubber might be a mesomorph, or a close variant. That might explain a good deal of it.

trnhrd
07-09-2008, 05:29 AM
From what I understand, it is feast-famine. Your body recognizes certain biological cues. If you reduce caloric intake to what your body understands as famine then your body will begin to store any and all extra calories above its base requirements. Not only will you experience the extra stored calories, but your body also begins to eliminate those things that use the most calories (muscle). The trick with weight loss is to find the balance where the body sees that it is being nourished, but it is also burning the right amount of calories to lose weight. It is a tricky spot to find, but once people learn their feast-famine set-point they are able to lose weight quickly and effectively.

mpipes
07-09-2008, 11:39 AM
If i went on a high protein, low carb, low fat diet, what would i use for energy? Protein?

Stored body fat, as opposed to ingested fats. The protein is going to be utilized for rebuilding muscle and recovery thanks to weight lifting.


Read BuckSpin's post. He went high protein, low carb, low fat and lost mega muscle

I did read his post and nowhere did he say he lost a lot of muscle, and looking at his photos pretty much proves it. He was being sarcastic in response to BBers' usual fear of losing muscle every time they sneeze. :)

Bronkko
07-09-2008, 01:33 PM
Why extremely low fat? That's a dumb move.

for some maybe...i wouldnt do it... but it worked for him!

Fozzy13
07-09-2008, 01:54 PM
ahhh. I weighed myself today and it seems liek i only lost liek 1lb. in several weeks! I do cardio at LEAST 5x a week which consists of running for about 25-30min. and lift 3x a week. Now i admit my diet isnt 100% the best but i gotta say its the cleanest i have ever eaten for the most part. Its usually Kashi cereal or waffles/tuna with light miracle whip/whole wheat breads/93/7 leanmeats/turkey deli meats/and pretty much nothing to drink but water and milk with the occasional 100% Orange or apple juice. I TRY to aim for 1700 calories and some days i hit that and some i got over but since i do cardio and lift i should still lose weight even if i eat over 2kcalories right? My maint. should not be very low for 175lb person.

stealth_maven
07-09-2008, 02:02 PM
ahhh. I weighed myself today and it seems liek i only lost liek 1lb. in several weeks! I do cardio at LEAST 5x a week which consists of running for about 25-30min. and lift 3x a week. Now i admit my diet isnt 100% the best but i gotta say its the cleanest i have ever eaten for the most part. Its usually Kashi cereal or waffles/tuna with light miracle whip/whole wheat breads/93/7 leanmeats/turkey deli meats/and pretty much nothing to drink but water and milk with the occasional 100% Orange or apple juice. I TRY to aim for 1700 calories and some days i hit that and some i got over but since i do cardio and lift i should still lose weight even if i eat over 2kcalories right? My maint. should not be very low for 175lb person.

I'd suggest upping calories then with all that work you're putting in.

Fozzy13
07-09-2008, 02:27 PM
I'd suggest upping calories then with all that work you're putting in.

Why is that? Is it affecting actual fat loss or just may end up burning muscle?

mpipes
07-09-2008, 02:39 PM
I'd suggest upping calories then with all that work you're putting in.

OR reduce the amount of work (cardio volume or intensity) and keep calories where they are. Either way can work.


Why is that? Is it affecting actual fat loss or just may end up burning muscle?

When you're already at a sizeable calorie deficit through diet then try to make that deficit even bigger through exercise, the body can put a halt to progress. It's the sympathetic nervous system kicking in to protect your body. Adding more calories and keeping exercise volume works, so will keeping calories the same and reducing volume.

I'm on a protein sparing modified fast right now, 1200 calorie intake, and if I push too hard with the cardio it stops my progress cold. I lift 3X per week and I'm now skipping cardio completely since I can't seem to keep my intensity under control, addicted to pushing like crazy :) I'm getting better results with no cardio.

stealth_maven
07-09-2008, 02:55 PM
OR reduce the amount of work (cardio volume or intensity) and keep calories where they are. Either way can work.



When you're already at a sizeable calorie deficit through diet then try to make that deficit even bigger through exercise, the body can put a halt to progress. It's the sympathetic nervous system kicking in to protect your body. Adding more calories and keeping exercise volume works, so will keeping calories the same and reducing volume.

I'm on a protein sparing modified fast right now, 1200 calorie intake, and if I push too hard with the cardio it stops my progress cold. I lift 3X per week and I'm now skipping cardio completely since I can't seem to keep my intensity under control, addicted to pushing like crazy :) I'm getting better results with no cardio.

Agreed with this man. I was at 1500 cals, but started increasing my cardio and intensity, did almost nothing, so I moved it back up to 2000.

Fozzy13
07-09-2008, 03:10 PM
Whats the link to see my maint. calories?

Also, would the maint. cal. differ if the person was 175lbs with high bodyfat opposed to a lean 175lbs?