Incompetent manager

[nickmanzoni]

Ok, I've been personal training for only 3 years. However, I do extremely well in my field and I feel like this is going to be my career for life. Every gym I worked for in this time I consistently get more clients/client renewals head and shoulders above every other trainer. I feel I have a very good understanding of the personal training world as a whole, and that I can teach others to do as good a job talking to clients as I do. The problem, from Bally Total Fitness, LA Fitness, Gold's gym *which I am currently in employ* And several subcontracting gigs while doing personal training: I am surrounded by incompetence!

If any of you every worked for a gym, you know about the supervisor/director role. All to this point have been filled with people who can't close a book let alone close a deal. On top of that, lack of practical skills are so prevalent that members are noticing. It is staggering the number of initial assessments this particular person has gotten even in the slow month of may, and has only sold 1, and that was for a measly 6 sessions!

Meanwhile, my sales ratio for every new member is easliy 90% (I WILL sell 9 clients out of 10), yet I've only gotten 2 I.A. in which I've sold both.

What I don't understand is: how do these people keep their jobs? I hate to sound sexist, but perhaps my female director is doing "favors" for the owner in exchange for a cooshie salary gig. It even got as bad as to have her hire FOUR NEW TRAINERS at the start of the slow season, in hopes to up personal training sales. I do such a good job, I feel that it makes my supervisor look good.

I am typing this response at my desk at work, while I talk to my supervisor. She is that stupid.



My question: do I sand-bag and hope she gets canned, or do I continue to push through, knowing full well I will not be noticed for the work I am doing?

[jando]

Ok, I've been personal training for only 3 years. However, I do extremely well in my field and I feel like this is going to be my career for life. Every gym I worked for in this time I consistently get more clients/client renewals head and shoulders above every other trainer. I feel I have a very good understanding of the personal training world as a whole, and that I can teach others to do as good a job talking to clients as I do. The problem, from Bally Total Fitness, LA Fitness, Gold's gym *which I am currently in employ* And several subcontracting gigs while doing personal training: I am surrounded by incompetence!

If any of you every worked for a gym, you know about the supervisor/director role. All to this point have been filled with people who can't close a book let alone close a deal. On top of that, lack of practical skills are so prevalent that members are noticing. It is staggering the number of initial assessments this particular person has gotten even in the slow month of may, and has only sold 1, and that was for a measly 6 sessions!

Meanwhile, my sales ratio for every new member is easliy 90% (I WILL sell 9 clients out of 10), yet I've only gotten 2 I.A. in which I've sold both.

What I don't understand is: how do these people keep their jobs? I hate to sound sexist, but perhaps my female director is doing "favors" for the owner in exchange for a cooshie salary gig. It even got as bad as to have her hire FOUR NEW TRAINERS at the start of the slow season, in hopes to up personal training sales. I do such a good job, I feel that it makes my supervisor look good.

I am typing this response at my desk at work, while I talk to my supervisor. She is that stupid.



My question: do I sand-bag and hope she gets canned, or do I continue to push through, knowing full well I will not be noticed for the work I am doing? obviously don't depend on your manager who should be doing assessments, making sales, phone calls, talking to members and handing clients off to staff members when necessary. I've noticed a lot of people get into positions in the gym industry who did not go to college because they know somebody and they take advantage of it. Eventually the sales manager will get too ticked off because he's being constantly yelled at by the General Manager. It will happen just give it time. They will begin to notice your performance because the Sales Manager should be overseeing numbers.

Also if you sand bag it you are putting your job at risk for a buddy unqualified trainer to take your spot and reducing your bottom line. You should have indirect ways of maybe mentioning things to your sales manager about the incompetence

[Machelli]

do you work in Wyomissing?

[Sikk]

you sound like me a year ago

take your clients and go private

[nickmanzoni]

Thanks everyone for the input. I work in the delco area, my director is a female, 50 years old, who has been in a business manager postition for 20 years (she claims). But she only has been personal training for 3 months! I would be more inclined to give her some slack, but she has not demonstrated any good managerial input since day 1. Everyone she's hired and trained has needed help from me at least a dozen times, (not knowing how the appointment log is filled, getting compensated for sessions, or selling personal training), all of which I am telling them, but I wonder why I do it, because if they get good at it, they become a threat.


I would love to go private, but I went down that road and I didn't have enough people follow me to keep up my bills. The only good thing about working for a bigger named gym is the amount of volume of clientel. I go solo, and my chances of growing are solely on referrals.
To put it bluntly, I've trained people for years, they follow me from club to club, but I've had not ONE client referral. I can't infer that my training is bad because they wouldn't follow me, but seriously, not a single referral???

[devildogbr]

Thanks everyone for the input. I work in the delco area, my director is a female, 50 years old, who has been in a business manager postition for 20 years (she claims). But she only has been personal training for 3 months! I would be more inclined to give her some slack, but she has not demonstrated any good managerial input since day 1. Everyone she's hired and trained has needed help from me at least a dozen times, (not knowing how the appointment log is filled, getting compensated for sessions, or selling personal training), all of which I am telling them, but I wonder why I do it, because if they get good at it, they become a threat.


I would love to go private, but I went down that road and I didn't have enough people follow me to keep up my bills. The only good thing about working for a bigger named gym is the amount of volume of clientel. I go solo, and my chances of growing are solely on referrals.
To put it bluntly, I've trained people for years, they follow me from club to club, but I've had not ONE client referral. I can't infer that my training is bad because they wouldn't follow me, but seriously, not a single referral???

well if you sand bag your just going to hurt yourself and your rep in the long run ... id do one of two thing ... either go private a take your clients ... or stick it out and forget about her ... as long as you have the clients like you said you should be making money and dont worry bout what she does or says just keep your clients happy ... if i were to guess u got in this buissness bc you love fittness ... so dont let some manager ruin that

[nickmanzoni]

Thanks for the reply. I really do love what I do. I just see it as she gets money for nothing, and I think I work really hard and if I put in a fraction of the effort she does, I know I can make a change for the better, just not financially, but an all around better vibe in the gym.

[devildogbr]

Thanks for the reply. I really do love what I do. I just see it as she gets money for nothing, and I think I work really hard and if I put in a fraction of the effort she does, I know I can make a change for the better, just not financially, but an all around better vibe in the gym.

i hear you ... thats just a choice you will have to make... i get an offer from ballys everyday but i dont like the management so i stay with my gym wich i love for a little less pay ... im about to go simi private though, the only reason i wont go full private is bc i love having my office and a place to go to work, plus i love the people i work with. But idk man id just stay were you are for the most part and then go simi private, having some clients to train at their house or a 24 hr gym or somthing

[hublife]

Don't complain about corporate America. It's always been that way in ALL FIELDS and it always will. If you don't want to deal with corporate BS then plan a way out. Perhaps you start your own company like I did (see signature) or maybe you do something else.

All I know is that the complaints you have are the same ones EVERYONE has. No point in complaining just do something about it.

[nickmanzoni]

Don't complain about corporate America. It's always been that way in ALL FIELDS and it always will. If you don't want to deal with corporate BS then plan a way out. Perhaps you start your own company like I did (see signature) or maybe you do something else.

All I know is that the complaints you have are the same ones EVERYONE has. No point in complaining just do something about it.



Well, what steps did YOU take in order to start your own business?

Did you raise capital? Take a loan? Is the hublife facility yours, or do you subcontract? Do you have a staff? Who are you insured through?

How do you market?

[hublife]

Well, what steps did YOU take in order to start your own business?

Did you raise capital? Take a loan? Is the hublife facility yours, or do you subcontract? Do you have a staff? Who are you insured through?

How do you market?

First I built up a strong clientel.

Then I found a facility that was really nice and charged a reasonable rate to rent space (I don't own the gym).

I did not raise "capital" or take out a loan. I simply worked with what I had and made sure that the rent was low enough that I could bank roll with a fairly light schedule in the beginning.

My best friend is my business partner so we don't have staff.

Right now I'm doing a mixture of gorilla marketing on the streets with flyers and online marketing.


If you need help with anything or have any other questions please feel free to ask I'd be glad to help.

Hublife

[nickmanzoni]

First I built up a strong clientel.

Then I found a facility that was really nice and charged a reasonable rate to rent space (I don't own the gym).

I did not raise "capital" or take out a loan. I simply worked with what I had and made sure that the rent was low enough that I could bank roll with a fairly light schedule in the beginning.

My best friend is my business partner so we don't have staff.

Right now I'm doing a mixture of gorilla marketing on the streets with flyers and online marketing.


If you need help with anything or have any other questions please feel free to ask I'd be glad to help.

Hublife
1. I started with 15 clients that wanted to leave the gym I was in to persue training at another facility.
2. I found a facility that was really nice and allowed me to rent space as well.
3. I had enough savings to ensure I could work well into the busy season.
4. My very good friend was my business partner.
5. I marketed via myspace, youtube, my own website, on the streets with fliers, hung up signs at the gym I rented space from.










2.The gym decides they want to up the rate, and since I quit my old job, couldn't argue.

3.In November, half of my clientel stopped training for the holiday rush, and others dropped the number of sessions per week down.
4. My good friend balked at joining me in a MMA/athelete training camp, and instead stayed where I used to work. He also proceeds to finish training the clients I had who weren't ready to come with me (about 5 out of 20) and he decides to keep them as clients and charge them less.
5. The guy I hired to do my website did such a piss-poor job I wanted to kill him. I met with him weekly, went through everything I wanted with my website, and in the end, the guy threw up a mixture of blue and grey crap on the internet and called it "MY" website. It's still not finished, I fired him. I didn't have any more money to keep sinking into this sinking ship of my business. So I went back to a corporate gym world. I thought I did everything right, but sometimes life doesn't want to give you the win so easily.

in case you wanted to see the website: www.masters-training.net <~~~ I absolutely hate this name, I never liked it, but that's all that was available, or so he said. I know he's lying, he just wanted a .net url.

[Code_B]

1. I started with 15 clients that wanted to leave the gym I was in to persue training at another facility.
2. I found a facility that was really nice and allowed me to rent space as well.
3. I had enough savings to ensure I could work well into the busy season.
4. My very good friend was my business partner.
5. I marketed via myspace, youtube, my own website, on the streets with fliers, hung up signs at the gym I rented space from.










2.The gym decides they want to up the rate, and since I quit my old job, couldn't argue.

3.In November, half of my clientel stopped training for the holiday rush, and others dropped the number of sessions per week down.
4. My good friend balked at joining me in a MMA/athelete training camp, and instead stayed where I used to work. He also proceeds to finish training the clients I had who weren't ready to come with me (about 5 out of 20) and he decides to keep them as clients and charge them less.
5. The guy I hired to do my website did such a piss-poor job I wanted to kill him. I met with him weekly, went through everything I wanted with my website, and in the end, the guy threw up a mixture of blue and grey crap on the internet and called it "MY" website. It's still not finished, I fired him. I didn't have any more money to keep sinking into this sinking ship of my business. So I went back to a corporate gym world. I thought I did everything right, but sometimes life doesn't want to give you the win so easily.

in case you wanted to see the website: www.masters-training.net <~~~ I absolutely hate this name, I never liked it, but that's all that was available, or so he said. I know he's lying, he just wanted a .net url.

sorry to hear about all this, glad you fired the guy though cuz you are right about that site :(

[John Prophet]

again, websites r the same as anything....everyoen can say "this one sucks", but its harder to find one that peopel agree is a great one.

its all a matter of taste.

I could put up the sites of a trainer in my gym. He is the only trainer there with sites and the only trainer making any $$$. I can promise u the sites r like c to c+ quality at best. They are very "1998"ish. But dude is making plenty decent $$$.

[nickmanzoni]

oh, 3 of the 4 trainers my boss hired have quit.

[EMISGOD]

Thanks everyone for the input. I work in the delco area, my director is a female, 50 years old, who has been in a business manager postition for 20 years (she claims). But she only has been personal training for 3 months! I would be more inclined to give her some slack, but she has not demonstrated any good managerial input since day 1. Everyone she's hired and trained has needed help from me at least a dozen times, (not knowing how the appointment log is filled, getting compensated for sessions, or selling personal training), all of which I am telling them, but I wonder why I do it, because if they get good at it, they become a threat.

Managing people is an entirely different ballgame and honestly, very few are actually good at it, so they focus on managing resources instead, of which humans, while taking up an awful lot of the figures, have a hard time being treated as numbers. However, management tends to look at numbers and resources and disregards almost entirely the human element. This has been going on for years, will continue for years and is a large part of why a large part of the "American dream" being sold is to be your own employer.


To put it bluntly, I've trained people for years, they follow me from club to club, but I've had not ONE client referral. I can't infer that my training is bad because they wouldn't follow me, but seriously, not a single referral???

WHY don't you have a single referral and if they follow you from club to club, why are you having a hard time making it? There is something HUGE and fundamental you're missing here (and not knowing your situation or having enough information about you, I can't tell you specifically yet), but referrals cannot have their importance overstated. Ever. Missing this is like trying to use an airboat on land.


Thanks for the reply. I really do love what I do. I just see it as she gets money for nothing, and I think I work really hard and if I put in a fraction of the effort she does, I know I can make a change for the better, just not financially, but an all around better vibe in the gym.

I don't have time to get into a huge discourse of why managers seem like they are doing nothing and still rake in the big bucks (simple answer: greater responsibility), but I will advise you to stop worrying about what she's doing and concentrate on what you're doing. If you want to make this your lifelong career, then you can forget the management path entirely and concentrate on the facets of you as a personal trainer that are lacking, specifically why you can't make it on your own solo. My advice is to stay at that place until you can get it figured out. Right now, at least one 24 Hour location is giving away 10% of their training sessions, though they do a piss-poor job with it and it's not really a surprise that people feel it insignificant enough to cut it out in an economic downturn. But, if 24 Hour, who does at least push their training sessions, is having that trouble, it may be symptomatic of a greater mindset that personal training is a luxury, as easily done away with as imported hair brushes for cats.


Well, what steps did YOU take in order to start your own business?

Did you raise capital? Take a loan? Is the hublife facility yours, or do you subcontract? Do you have a staff? Who are you insured through?

How do you market?

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. I know of about 2 dozen personal training facilities that took a **** in the last 2 years trying to go this route. Unless you can get tied in with a fight circuit, the MMA (and other specialty) **** generally won't fly. You need to either get to the point of where the Gym Jones guy is, where you specifically pick and choose your clientele or you need to get tied in with an institution, maybe some corporations, but you will be hard pressed to just start there. Here's some fun numbers for you. 90% (or more) of people generally do not care about fitness. Of the 10% who do, 90% of those have no interest in a personal trainer. So and this is where psychology comes in, you need to make them care. Assuming your avatar is you, you're a good walking advertisement, but what else are you offering them besides eye candy? What are you presenting them that they can't get from the kids "training" people up and down the stairs at 24 Hour?


again, websites r the same as anything....everyoen can say "this one sucks", but its harder to find one that peopel agree is a great one.

its all a matter of taste.

I could put up the sites of a trainer in my gym. He is the only trainer there with sites and the only trainer making any $$$. I can promise u the sites r like c to c+ quality at best. They are very "1998"ish. But dude is making plenty decent $$$.

Why didn't you put it up?


oh, 3 of the 4 trainers my boss hired have quit.

Most people view this as a job, instead of a way to help people. Attitude is a good portion of successful trainers.

[nickmanzoni]

What do I say to this?

I've now completely booked my appointment book as much as I care to.

Monday through thursday 10:30 to 8:00 only two hours open, one to work out, and one to eat lunch.

Saturdays 4 hours. 11:00 to 3:00

My retention rate is superb. My training speaks for itself, I never have to "sell" a client. They feel good and I deliver what I promise.

What I think my problem was going solo? Location.

Way too out of the way, and at the time was the only place (I thought) to train people without being confined to a contract.

I have learned. Oh yes. I have learned.

[nickmanzoni]

p.s. That IS me in my photo.

Anyone want to give me an idea for a new avatar?

[EMISGOD]

My retention rate is superb. My training speaks for itself, I never have to "sell" a client. They feel good and I deliver what I promise.

Wrong. You would be turning people away if the reality matched your case.


What I think my problem was going solo? Location.

Is this a joke? You didn't look into Gym Jones, I see. You should. When you're that good, people find you, including flying to another city to train with you.


...to train people without being confined to a contract.

Negotiate. All contracts are open to negotiation.


p.s. That IS me in my photo.

Anyone want to give me an idea for a new avatar?

I don't think you necessarily need a new avatar, unless you're trying to do something special with these boards. If you do elect to get a new one, all you have to is adjust the lighting...

[nickmanzoni]

Actually, just yesterday I turned 3 different people away.
I've only been in this business for 3 years. I'm sure in another 3 my credibilty will be as such that I CAN get people without fear of location. But emis, I was 20 miles away from my last place when I moved. Some people would've had to drive over an hour.

[partsRheavy]

I think the OP is onto something with regard to location.

Probably most clients are white-collar professionals I would assume.

Most people (who are employed and in the market for personal training) have busy lives. They don't want to spend unnecessary time in the car, because it cuts down on time for family, meals, errands, and downtime.

Thus, gym locations that are either near workplaces or very close to home are ideal. If a location for training is too far off from the clients' commute/lunch route...it's too far away for them to take the extra hour(s) to commute.

Clients' time is probably more the issue here than gas money, but the recent rise in gas prices has probably caused clients to think about their time priorities and about minimizing their driving time. People really don't want an extra commute other than the necessary one to/from work. So, if your location is close to workplaces or homes...great. If it's on the other end of town...not so good.

If I had a couple hundred thou (and the bod + certifications)...I'd locate a training studio or gym next door to a corporate office park (2,000 + workers)and very close to a locally-owned restaurant that offers healthy, calorie-conscious meals. The idea is that a percentage of the workers would w/o or train either before work, during lunch, or right after work....then commute home.

Perhaps a wealthy client with a flexible schedule would fly to another city for a session...but this is the top 5%...not the average client. And, for these clients - who probably have unique schedules (e.g. entertainment industry) - time is money even more than for the more normal clients and the trainer's sorta got to adhere to the client's schedule.

[carl.c]

Nickmanzoni; See if there is a chapter of SCORE in your area , web sight is score.org. It is a society of retired buisnessmen who help people start small buisnesses. It sounds like you are readly to go independent.
I would recommend you try again. Learn for your mistakes and get independent.

[devildogbr]

I think the OP is onto something with regard to location.

Probably most clients are white-collar professionals I would assume.

Most people (who are employed and in the market for personal training) have busy lives. They don't want to spend unnecessary time in the car, because it cuts down on time for family, meals, errands, and downtime.

Thus, gym locations that are either near workplaces or very close to home are ideal. If a location for training is too far off from the clients' commute/lunch route...it's too far away for them to take the extra hour(s) to commute.

Clients' time is probably more the issue here than gas money, but the recent rise in gas prices has probably caused clients to think about their time priorities and about minimizing their driving time. People really don't want an extra commute other than the necessary one to/from work. So, if your location is close to workplaces or homes...great. If it's on the other end of town...not so good.

If I had a couple hundred thou (and the bod + certifications)...I'd locate a training studio or gym next door to a corporate office park (2,000 + workers)and very close to a locally-owned restaurant that offers healthy, calorie-conscious meals. The idea is that a percentage of the workers would w/o or train either before work, during lunch, or right after work....then commute home.

Perhaps a wealthy client with a flexible schedule would fly to another city for a session...but this is the top 5%...not the average client. And, for these clients - who probably have unique schedules (e.g. entertainment industry) - time is money even more than for the more normal clients and the trainer's sorta got to adhere to the client's schedule.

true ... plus gas prices if some1 has to drive 30 min to u and 30 min back not only did they just waste an hor of their day in a car but they just spent and extra 10 to 15 $$$ on gas ... that might not seem like a lot but try that for every session... alot of people ar smart enough to figure this out

[nickmanzoni]

Alot of great input. I'm glad/sad it turned the way it is, but on the good news, I did talk to my boss with a point-by-point list of reasons why I should head the PT department, or at least create a new position for me based on my value. If I don't get one or the other I am walking.


Carlc: great find on that score.org. It is a great resource! I wish there was a better way to "find" people in the health club world whose brains I could pick. Thanks again.

[BSCSCS]

Alot of great input. I'm glad/sad it turned the way it is, but on the good news, I did talk to my boss with a point-by-point list of reasons why I should head the PT department, or at least create a new position for me based on my value. If I don't get one or the other I am walking.


Carlc: great find on that score.org. It is a great resource! I wish there was a better way to "find" people in the health club world whose brains I could pick. Thanks again.

I have been in fitness management for 7+ years now. Usually every club has one or two "divas" that are just a pure pain in the ass. They think that they are always OWED moremoremore, and never stop bitching about it. You are sounding like one of these trainers.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are a bad guy, or even that your points aren't valid. But, you have been there for three years and are supposedly head and shoulders above any other trainer...yet they havn't approached you for a mgmt position. Either the club does not view you as an effective leader, or they are ineffective leaders themselves. Either way, you can be happy that you are booked solid in these hard economic times, or you can bitch and moan about how good you are doing and demand more.

This kind of drive should help you as an independant trainer, but excessive drive can hurt you as an employee. When one of the "divas" would come to me and DEMAND something, the day would usually end with me and the rest of management laughing our asses off...FYI.

[nickmanzoni]

Way to pull out a post from over a year ago.

By the way, I DID become manager of the PT department, and for the three months I was director we exceeded personal training revenue in the history of the gym's life.

Unfortunately the owner of the franchise was bouncing my checks all over town, so I had to quit and had a helluva time trying to get my money that I was owed (think several thousand dollars).


FYI: It's easy to armchair judge a person. It's much much easier to slander someone calling them a "diva" which you absolutely were. Whoever you are I've seen your posts and your input and they are both nothing short of ordinary in all cases. The mere fact you can't read a dated post makes me very nervous as to your critical thinking skills. So how about you leave your opinions to yourself?

[BSCSCS]

Way to pull out a post from over a year ago.

By the way, I DID become manager of the PT department, and for the three months I was director we exceeded personal training revenue in the history of the gym's life.

Unfortunately the owner of the franchise was bouncing my checks all over town, so I had to quit and had a helluva time trying to get my money that I was owed (think several thousand dollars).


FYI: It's easy to armchair judge a person. It's much much easier to slander someone calling them a "diva" which you absolutely were. Whoever you are I've seen your posts and your input and they are both nothing short of ordinary in all cases. The mere fact you can't read a dated post makes me very nervous as to your critical thinking skills. So how about you leave your opinions to yourself?

The post was at the top of the page. I don't normally look at every date of every post. Congratulations on achieving your goals. But unfortunately it sounds like they played you for a fool...hope you got your money. I know that this can be a dirty game, and that's why I moved back into corporate fitness first chance I got. "Ordinary" got me salary + training execs of the fortune 100 company that I work for. I guess life's just not fair huh?

[SageFit]

Nick I have some really good advice for you. Do what you will with it, it's a risk but it worked for me. The reason I was able to open my own fitness center at the age of 24 is because of a little thing I did about 3 years ago.

I was working as a personal trainer in a private facility. The facility was doing well but an incompetent manager was leading us down the tubes. The owner was a silent owner so the manager had control of everything. I basically said to myself "If this doesn't change the place is screwed anyways, might as well take a risk".

What I did was write a 20 page paper in a professional, clear and concise manner explaining to the owner everything that was being done wrong at the place. Using examples and even listing phone numbers of clients who felt the same way I basically launched an attack against the manager. Everything I did was in extreme detail and also offered ways to improve them. I made sure to include numbers to prove my points. Numbers were key.

Long story short I became an assistant manager (not manager but at least made a lot more money) and made enough money to start my place. Meanwhile the stupid boss never had me a sign a non competition clause, thus went his business. The end.

[SageFit]

oh jeez I didn't realize this was bumped from a year ago. Whoops!