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MEGAMANLET
04-29-2008, 03:03 PM
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P.O.L
04-29-2008, 03:04 PM
flex gets my vote

willldabeast
04-29-2008, 03:07 PM
flex gets my vote

i have to agree, i think of this every time i see this vid

J_Bo
04-29-2008, 03:09 PM
Ronnie was the defending champ and Flex did not do enough to dethrone him. Ronnie was in good condition that year and had a TON of mass on Flex. Look at the difference in the pecs when they're just standing there... The only areas Flex has Ronnie on are the oil-enhanced ones...

MEGAMANLET
04-29-2008, 03:11 PM
Ronnie was the defending champ and Flex did not do enough to dethrone him. Ronnie was in good condition that year and had a TON of mass on Flex. Look at the difference in the pecs when they're just standing there... The only areas Flex has Ronnie on are the oil-enhanced ones...

does that include abs? i thought flex had much better abs and his arms looked bigger to me too

Captain Sagara
04-29-2008, 03:12 PM
I vote Flex over Ronnie due to personal preference in terms of asthetics,lines and that kind of aspects but if i were a judge i also would have choosen Ronnie for the winner...
But i don't think this is one of those years that Ronnie's win can be debated,if we were to debate Ronnie's wins when he probably could have lost,those years were 2001 and 2002...

J_Bo
04-29-2008, 03:14 PM
does that include abs? i thought flex had much better abs and his arms looked bigger to me too

The arms were oil-enhanced....
And the may have been better relaxed, but ronnies arms are almost bicep peaks are probably the greated of all time. His tris matched Flex's too in actual flexing shots. Ronnie had much more "hardness" in his arms. Flex's were kind of just big...

Obviously Flex had better ab genetics, but their waists were very close to the same size and condition at this particular show.

Captain Sagara
04-29-2008, 03:17 PM
Other then oil on his calves and shoulders i doubt Flex had oil on his arms,his biceps and triceps were always very big and full with a nice peak...but i can be wrong because Flex used to be a lazy dude and i would not be surprised if he also had a bit of oil in the arms...

Duckenheimer
04-29-2008, 03:17 PM
I much prefer Flex's physique.

No question that Ronnie was the clear winner though. His muscularity and conditioning wasn't even in the same universe as the other two. Lights out:

D03c5cDdQmE

I would have placed Flex behind Cormier. Flex's arms and delts that year just took away from things IMHO.

J_Bo
04-29-2008, 03:19 PM
I much prefer Flex's physique.

No question that Ronnie destroyed him in overall mass, separation + conditioning - and in my personal opinion, due to Flex's disproportionate arms and delts - symmetry.

I think a lot of people are like that... They prefer Flex's look, but if you really break down the factors, Ronnie was obviously the superior bodybuilder...

Edit: just saw your edit... Damn! Cormier was awesome that year, too... Haven't had a top 3 that good in a while.

J_Bo
04-29-2008, 03:20 PM
Other then oil on his calves and shoulders i doubt Flex had oil on his arms,his biceps and triceps were always very big and full with a nice peak...but i can be wrong because Flex used to be a lazy dude and i would not be surprised if he also had a bit of oil in the arms...

Judging by the way they look nowadays, I would have to assume he used it in his arms...

Duckenheimer
04-29-2008, 03:22 PM
I think a lot of people are like that... They prefer Flex's look, but if you really break down the factors, Ronnie was obviously the superior bodybuilder...

1993 Flex, with that kind of conditioning and quality, may have been a worthy challenger to a much larger Ronnie. But the softer and synthol filled late 90s Flex, just didn't have the edge on conditioning over Coleman, which would be necessary to fend off such a monstrously sized competitor.

Captain Sagara
04-29-2008, 03:37 PM
1993 Flex, with that kind of conditioning and quality, may have been a worthy challenger to a much larger Ronnie. But the softer and synthol filled late 90s Flex, just didn't have the edge on conditioning over Coleman, which would be necessary to fend off such a monstrously sized competitor.

Flex 93 is my favourite physique of all time...

realistromeo
04-29-2008, 04:01 PM
93 flex was off the chain.

He was so damn crisp...his back was "perfect"

But ronnie had moar hardness, a larger clavicle, and larger back and legs in 99

One thing that i always thought of is that Chris Cormier was the only bodybuilder who could trump Ronnie in the genetics department and overthrow ronnie coleman.

He had a great blend of asthetics size fullness and was a bodybuilders bodybuilder.

flangmasterj
04-29-2008, 04:14 PM
Ronnie destroyed Flex.

Flex's shoulders and calves just bug the hell out of me.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/1-3.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/Untitled-1-2.jpg

MaskedManiac
04-29-2008, 04:18 PM
Ronnies My Buddy But Flex.

The
Maniac.

Iceman1981
04-29-2008, 04:22 PM
It's a video of both guys standing relaxed. One guy worked his a$$ off physically and mentally (Ronnie), and the other guy half a$$ed his way mentally and physically while injecting his body with oil (Flex). I like Flex, but I would never award a guy filled will oil as the winner. Flex without oil is one of the best of all-time though. Ronnie in 99' was just too big and ripped that year to lose. That is probably Ronnie at his best and in my opinion the best physique of all-time.

Samantha905
04-29-2008, 04:33 PM
Ronnie is amazing and huge, but i find his body ugly 2bh, just dont like looking at it,

Flex's is more eye-pleasing imho

White_Goodman
04-29-2008, 04:43 PM
Ronnie was the defending champ and Flex did not do enough to dethrone him. Ronnie was in good condition that year and had a TON of mass on Flex. Look at the difference in the pecs when they're just standing there... The only areas Flex has Ronnie on are the oil-enhanced ones...

i always thought that was ronnies first win

Newbtime
04-29-2008, 05:05 PM
i have never liked 1 thing about flex wheelers build... and i have been a ronnie fan since day 1 so.... my answer is kind of obvious :D

Newbtime
04-29-2008, 05:12 PM
I vote Flex over Ronnie due to personal preference in terms of asthetics,lines and that kind of aspects but if i were a judge i also would have choosen Ronnie for the winner...
But i don't think this is one of those years that Ronnie's win can be debated,if we were to debate Ronnie's wins when he probably could have lost,those years were 2001 and 2002...

i fail to see how ronnie was any less asthetic then flex in 99

you just think ronnie is and always was a un apealing mass monster.. he still had a small ass waist in 99

if anything i would pick ronnie as being more aesthetic then flex, and IMO he just blew everyone out of the water that year, i think 99 was ronnies best year.

stealth_swimmer
04-29-2008, 05:21 PM
I much prefer Flex's physique.

No question that Ronnie was the clear winner though. His muscularity and conditioning wasn't even in the same universe as the other two. Lights out:

D03c5cDdQmE

I would have placed Flex behind Cormier. Flex's arms and delts that year just took away from things IMHO.

Wow, you read my mind (serious). At least goin by that vid. Flex was a little bigger in the limbs but Cormier's overall shape was better IMO, and Cormier's rear lat spread was better. Rear lat spread was always Flex's weak point.



i fail to see how ronnie was any less asthetic then flex in 99

you just think ronnie is and always was a un apealing mass monster.. he still had a small ass waist in 99

if anything i would pick ronnie as being more aesthetic then flex, and IMO he just blew everyone out of the water that year, i think 99 was ronnies best year.

Well I think Flex's waist was a little less distended but Ronnie wasn't totally bloated either. And honestly I also feel that Ronnie's overall aesthetics were better than Flex's that year.



This is just my opinion of course, but I feel that Flex looked REALLY good in the front double bi...but not much else. Oh ab and thigh looked good but overall didn't have the stage presence in it like the front double bi. Back double bi was good but severely lacked lower back thickness (not lower lat, I mean below the lats in the lumbar region, didn't have much of a christmas tree) so it threw the whole pose off.

Am I nitpicking? Yes. Still one of the greatest physiques ever, but I feel people tend to overlook his flaws, which honestly I found pretty glaring.

Guardian
04-29-2008, 05:25 PM
if anything i would pick ronnie as being more aesthetic then flex



Yea ok can people on this board get any more bias ...

Newbtime
04-29-2008, 05:37 PM
Yea ok can people on this board get any more bias ...

LMAO

didnt see that come from you :rolleyes:


http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9218/fhdffffffffffffffffffffne5.jpg


ronnie >flex overall in every posibble way in 99... ya flexes bag-of-oil biceps and calvesand distended abs are VERY aesthetic :rolleyes:

flangmasterj
04-29-2008, 05:41 PM
**** Ronnie was a BEAST!!

DPNZ
04-29-2008, 06:36 PM
Ronnie destroyed Flex.

Flex's shoulders and calves just bug the hell out of me.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/1-3.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/Untitled-1-2.jpg


I agree, the guy never should have placed in the top 5 after he did that **** to himself. Made a mockery of the sport and was an insult to the other competitors.

Ronnie 100%

wilwn
04-29-2008, 07:05 PM
no contest man, ronnie DWARFED flex.

syldog
04-29-2008, 07:05 PM
FLEX is pathetic. Had so much oil in him he makes the EXXON VALDEZ oil spill look mild. Loser.

wilwn
04-29-2008, 07:08 PM
i fail to see how ronnie was any less asthetic then flex in 99

you just think ronnie is and always was a un apealing mass monster.. he still had a small ass waist in 99

if anything i would pick ronnie as being more aesthetic then flex, and IMO he just blew everyone out of the water that year, i think 99 was ronnies best year.

guardian bait

J_Bo
04-29-2008, 07:08 PM
i always thought that was ronnies first win

This is a video of the 99' Olympia... Ronnie's first win was in 98'

Piteng
04-29-2008, 07:57 PM
Ronnie ftw!! yeah buddy..

Guardian
04-29-2008, 08:09 PM
LMAO

didnt see that come from you :rolleyes:


http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9218/fhdffffffffffffffffffffne5.jpg


ronnie >flex overall in every posibble way in 99... ya flexes bag-of-oil biceps and calvesand distended abs are VERY aesthetic :rolleyes:

You def have an solid argument as to Ronnie winning that year, he had some edges on Flex however being aesthetic is not one of them.

Coal Man
04-29-2008, 08:29 PM
You def have an solid argument as to Ronnie winning that year, he had some edges on Flex however being aesthetic is not one of them.

It depends on how you define aesthetic.

In my opinion, a 8-foot tall, MASSIVE giant with a SUPERB shoulder to waist ratio, is more aesthetic than a 5'9" bodybuilder with a slightly smaller shoulder-to-waist ratio. You always seem to confused being "aesthetic" with "Having a pretty physique"

Ronnie's lines were unbeatable. My jaw always drops when I see that 1999 footage.

WiliamBurkowitz
04-29-2008, 08:55 PM
Neither of these guys were aesthetic.

Both were FREAKS... and Flex more like a cartoon but definately just strange with tose shoulders so unproportioned. Only his midsection actualy looks 'aesthetic', the rest look like bags of sand or something.

No contest for Ronnie.

Duckenheimer
04-29-2008, 09:04 PM
What is aesthetically pleasing is very subjective. Ronnie had tremendously dramatic and brilliantly shaped lines, and I feel a more balanced physique than Flex in 1999.

Flex has a prettier shape IMO. But not everyone will find this applies to how they experience it.

flangmasterj
04-29-2008, 09:12 PM
I find Ronnie's 99 physique quite aesthetic. His waist may not have been the tiniest but his wide shoulders and back still gave the illusion of a great v-taper.

RippedGuitarist
04-29-2008, 10:24 PM
Well IMO Flex is more aesthetically pleasing, I know a lot of people think otherwise, but that's subjective. Ronnie shape and lines never impressed me as much as other people.

As far as this contest goes, I think Ronnie was a bit more complete, and better conditioned, so I think he deserved it. But which of those two physique I prefer to look at would be Flex.

Though since he was using synthol, that takes away from everything. What muscles was he using it on? Shoulder's, bi's, calves?

CunnyFunt
04-29-2008, 11:02 PM
Yeap. In the rewards presentation, Flex wheeler beats Coleman in the relaxed pose. Thats it.


Coleman beats or at very least matches Flex in every other pose.
Look at the Rear Spread in the video... Flex got absolutely destroyed.

wilwn
04-30-2008, 12:20 AM
It depends on how you define aesthetic.

In my opinion, a 8-foot tall, MASSIVE giant with a SUPERB shoulder to waist ratio, is more aesthetic than a 5'9" bodybuilder with a slightly smaller shoulder-to-waist ratio. You always seem to confused being "aesthetic" with "Having a pretty physique"

Ronnie's lines were unbeatable. My jaw always drops when I see that 1999 footage.

What is aesthetically pleasing is very subjective. Ronnie had tremendously dramatic and brilliantly shaped lines, and I feel a more balanced physique than Flex in 1999.

Flex has a prettier shape IMO. But not everyone will find this applies to how they experience it.

aesthetics is definitely highly subjective. i can relate to someone who would find ronnie's exceptional lines and separation in 1999 to be "aesthetic"

Reisinger850
04-30-2008, 12:22 AM
Well IMO Flex is more aesthetically pleasing, I know a lot of people think otherwise, but that's subjective. Ronnie shape and lines never impressed me as much as other people.



Ronnie's lines belong to the best in the history of the sport...


And here we go again with the aesthetics argument (guardian is trolling once again). What are you guys lokking at?


First off, it was no contest. Ronnie won with perfect scores and Flex can be happy to be in the top 5 because I think he should be penalized for his oil-shoulders/biceps/calves....

Second: even the standing relaxed video where the winner is announced, I see a way more balanced and more aesthetic Ronnie Coleman. His dramatic taper stands out, his muscle shape is beautiful.


But what about Flex?

Narrow clavicle (got chest?), oiled everything, small legs...What is beautiful? I TELL YOU WHAT! The ONLY thing which seems to be beautiful for some of you is that Flex is MUCH smaller than Coleman which is a sad argument with regard to the aesthetic issue.

So all in all:

Ronnie is: more conditioned, more balanced, much bigger, more aesthetic, more impressive in general.

Thx.

wilwn
04-30-2008, 12:25 AM
Ronnie's lines belong to the best in the history of the sport...


And here we go again with the aesthetics argument (guardian is trolling once again). What are you guys lokking at?


First off, it was no contest. Ronnie won with perfect scores and Flex can be happy to be in the top 5 because I think he should be penalized for his oil-shoulders/biceps/calves....

Second: even the standing relaxed video where the winner is announced, I see a way more balanced and more aesthetic Ronnie Coleman. His dramatic taper stands out, his muscle shape is beautiful.


But what about Flex?

Narrow clavicle (got chest?), oiled everything, small legs...What is beautiful? I TELL YOU WHAT! The ONLY thing which seems to be beautiful for some of you is that Flex is MUCH smaller than Coleman which is a sad argument with regard to the aesthetic issue.

So all in all:

Ronnie is: more conditioned, more balanced, much bigger, more aesthetic, more impressive in general.

Thx.

i think that for a lot of people, being aesthetic by definition precludes the extreme. in that way, it's easy to see why certain people would find flex's physique more aesthetic.

Reisinger850
04-30-2008, 12:27 AM
i think that for a lot of people, being aesthetic by definition precludes the extreme. in that way, it's easy to see why certain people would find flex's physique more aesthetic.

Yes because he has not much enough muscle. So in fact, the less muscular, the more aesthetic. SAD.

There are much more things which need to be considered and then it becomes clear that Flex is a liar, a synthol filled oil-liar. Although this is harsh, the late 1990's Flex is just that.

(I don't take away anything from his physique in the early 90's)

Radok
04-30-2008, 01:23 AM
Yea ok can people on this board get any more bias ...

I agree with him. Ronnie just looks like he's built like a tank, every muscle group on his body is maxed out on the years he's in his prime. And on top of having that maximum mass and proportion, he came ripped and dry as hell. He just looks like he blows flex away to me. An example is his biceps, they're shaped like hearts if you're looking at them from the top while flexed, because the two heads of the biceps have full separation. Flex's arms were not as shredded and separated. His delts look like balloons and don't flow with the rest of his physique either.

Reisinger850
04-30-2008, 01:24 AM
I agree with him. Ronnie just looks like he's built like a tank, every muscle group on his body is maxed out on the years he's in his prime. And on top of having that maximum mass and proportion, he came ripped and dry as hell. He just looks like he blows flex away to me.

Well, but Guardian, like always, loves to be unrealistic and goes with the minority who unfortunately believes that Flex was better and more aesthetic...

Npeart
04-30-2008, 02:15 AM
Ronnie was the defending champ and Flex did not do enough to dethrone him. Ronnie was in good condition that year and had a TON of mass on Flex. Look at the difference in the pecs when they're just standing there... The only areas Flex has Ronnie on are the oil-enhanced ones...

If that is from 98, Ronnie was NOT the defending champ. It was his first Sandow.

Reisinger850
04-30-2008, 02:17 AM
If that is from 98, Ronnie was NOT the defending champ. It was his first Sandow.

This vid is from 1999.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 02:20 AM
This vid is from 1999.

Thanks.

I think Flex was better on this day, but they always reward the champ.

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 02:30 AM
Ronnie all the way here. I don't know how anyone can even acknowledge an oil filled flex. **** ain't even real. Screw that.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 02:41 AM
Ronnie all the way here. I don't know how anyone can even acknowledge an oil filled flex. **** ain't even real. Screw that.

They were all using it in that era - not just Flex. Flex Wheeler is the most genetically gifted bb'er I have ever seen. If he could handle the diet and wasn't so lazy, he could have won a Sandow or two. Ronnie had the mass, no doubt, but it goes back to what we always say, should the biggest guy win every time or do lines and symmetry count for anything?

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 02:46 AM
They were all using it in that era - not just Flex. Flex Wheeler is the most genetically gifted bb'er I have ever seen. If he could handle the diet and wasn't so lazy, he could have won a Sandow or two. Ronnie had the mass, no doubt, but it goes back to what we always say, should the biggest guy win every time or do lines and symmetry count for anything?

Yeah you're right. They've all used it at some point in time. But flex just seemed to go head and tails beyond normal use that year. His shoulders and calves don't even look real. Like they doubled in size in only a year.

I've always told myself that ronnie could be the only pro who has not used some form of oil enhancement though I am problably wrong there as well. But I don't know. Young ronnie was a hard act to follow. His midsection had grown somewhat but his lines were still very aesthetic in my opinion. (small hips, big ribcage, wide shoulders, huge lat spread)

I think it could have went either way. Cause if flex had won you would have had a million people pissed off stating how ronnie outsized him with similar lines.

flangmasterj
04-30-2008, 03:00 AM
Flex Wheeler is the most genetically gifted bb'er I have ever seen.

That title now belongs to Phil Heath.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 03:05 AM
Yeah you're right. They've all used it at some point in time. But flex just seemed to go head and tails beyond normal use that year. His shoulders and calves don't even look real. Like they doubled in size in only a year.

I've always told myself that ronnie could be the only pro who has not used some form of oil enhancement though I am problably wrong there as well. But I don't know. Young ronnie was a hard act to follow. His midsection had grown somewhat but his lines were still very aesthetic in my opinion. (small hips, big ribcage, wide shoulders, huge lat spread)

I think it could have went either way. Cause if flex had won you would have had a million people pissed off stating how ronnie outsized him with similar lines.

I tend to agree with you on the Ronnie never used oil theory. Of course, only he and Chad know for sure. Many used it in moderation to bring up lagging bodyparts, while others got carried away with it (see Nasser). If Ronnie had just kept his 99 package he probably would have never lost, although I thought 03 was his best ever look.

Flex is a sad story. The dude was just too much of a narcissist to handle his business properly. That said, if you put Ronnie's work ethic in Flex's body, you'd have the perfect bodybuilder, IMO.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 03:10 AM
That title now belongs to Phil Heath.

Nope. Nobody here admires Phil as much as I do. I think the kid is all class, but he IS narrow. I think in two years we will know if Phil has the goods. The last pics of Dennis I saw were a disappointment, because his lower back and hams were not improved and he will never win the O like that. He also needs bigger arms. His width is fantastic from the rear, but his lats get lost in his front lat spread. Bringing up is lower lats will fix that.

Phil is the most genetically gifted if we are talking about response to gear and ancillaries - yes, but NOT structurally.

Reisinger850
04-30-2008, 03:16 AM
If Ronnie had just kept his 99 package he probably would have never lost, although I thought 03 was his best ever look.


Well actually, Ronnie has never lost although his physique has changed a lot. 2006 was more due to age...

wilwn
04-30-2008, 03:17 AM
Nope. Nobody here admires Phil as much as I do. I think the kid is all class, but he IS narrow. I think in two years we will know if Phil has the goods. The last pics of Dennis I saw were a disappointment, because his lower back and hams were not improved and he will never win the O like that. He also needs bigger arms. His width is fantastic from the rear, but his lats get lost in his front lat spread. Bringing up is lower lats will fix that.

Phil is the most genetically gifted if we are talking about response to gear and ancillaries - yes, but NOT structurally.

agreed, but the IFBB judges didn't seem to care too much about his flaws, as his rear lat spread alone was able to carry him to 5th at the O.

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 03:18 AM
Nope. Nobody here admires Phil as much as I do. I think the kid is all class, but he IS narrow. I think in two years we will know if Phil has the goods. The last pics of Dennis I saw were a disappointment, because his lower back and hams were not improved and he will never win the O like that. He also needs bigger arms. His width is fantastic from the rear, but his lats get lost in his front lat spread. Bringing up is lower lats will fix that.

Phil is the most genetically gifted if we are talking about response to gear and ancillaries - yes, but NOT structurally.

Hmmm. From the latest pics I've seen wolf has brought his arms up a great deal and his lats look much thicker from the front. His lower back and hams still need some improvement but I can see some progress. But as I said before I just don't understand why people keep saying he needs to bring up his lower lats.

If his lats insert high there's nothing he can do about that. I compare it to someone stating that dexter needs his calves to come down lower and thicker. It ain't gonna happen cause he has high calves.

wilwn
04-30-2008, 03:19 AM
Hmmm. From the latest pics I've seen wolf has brought his arms up a great deal and his lats look much thicker from the front. His lower back and hams still need some improvement but I can see some progress. But as I said before I just don't understand why people keep saying he needs to bring up his lower lats.

If his lats insert high there's nothing he can do about that. I compare it to someone stating that dexter needs his calves to come down lower and thicker. It ain't gonna happen cause he has high calves.

well, it seems that dexter jackson has been able to "bring up" his lower lats over the years to offset his high lats.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 03:21 AM
agreed, but the IFBB judges didn't seem to care too much about his flaws, as his rear lat spread alone was able to carry him to 5th at the O.

Phil needs to beat Dennis. He already placed 2nd to Dexter at the Arnold. So if he is truly the #3 best in the world right now, he must beat Dennis to solidify it.

Phil is getting high placings because of his insane condition, arms and wheels. His back is very good, but not wide enough to hang with Jay or Dennis from the rear, although I think he kills Dennis from the waist down from the rear.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 03:25 AM
Hmmm. From the latest pics I've seen wolf has brought his arms up a great deal and his lats look much thicker from the front. His lower back and hams still need some improvement but I can see some progress. But as I said before I just don't understand why people keep saying he needs to bring up his lower lats.

If his lats insert high there's nothing he can do about that. I compare it to someone stating that dexter needs his calves to come down lower and thicker. It ain't gonna happen cause he has high calves.

Every bb'er has some genetic limitations that simply cannot be overcome. This is true. His lats do, indeed, insert high, but I think some serious training focus on his lower back may help him with his front spread. From the back his lat spread is great - huge wing span. We pontificate here about some of the pros building the perfect body, I guess. It's how we pass the time, LOL!!

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 03:26 AM
well, it seems that dexter jackson has been able to "bring up" his lower lats over the years to offset his high lats.

I agree. Though he is the ONLY pro with high lats I have ever seen do this in our era. Dennis James and others with high lats never brought them down noticeably.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 03:27 AM
Well actually, Ronnie has never lost although his physique has changed a lot. 2006 was more due to age...

06 was due to atrophy and injury. I know he never lost, but there were a few "questionable" years. I'm just saying if he could have kept what he won with in 99, he probably still could have swept 8 straight.

03 was special, though. He looked ridiculous.

flangmasterj
04-30-2008, 03:28 AM
I think he kills Dennis from the waist down from the rear.

He kills Dennis everywhere except in height and undercutness.

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 03:30 AM
He kills Dennis everywhere except in height and undercutness.

:p.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 03:31 AM
He kills Dennis everywhere except in height and undercutness.

No, Dennis has him beat in the rear lat spread and shoulders.

Phil has better:

wheels
arms
lower back

wilwn
04-30-2008, 03:31 AM
06 was due to atrophy and injury. I know he never lost, but there were a few "questionable" years. I'm just saying if he could have kept what he won with in 99, he probably still could have swept 8 straight.

03 was special, though. He looked ridiculous.

lost on principle :p

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 03:37 AM
No, Dennis has him beat in the rear lat spread and shoulders.

Phil has better:

wheels
arms
lower back

Go ahead. You know what you really wanted to say bro..........................................heath kills wolf when it comes to the shredded butt cheeks. Lol.:D

In all honesty I really don't even think that's a fair bodypart to judge. Almost all of us brothas have naturally lean, muscly asses. Its just how we are built So to me it seems common place that most black bodybuilders will have naturally leaner more developed glutes when dieted down.

MesoPeaks
04-30-2008, 03:39 AM
light weight!

Npeart
04-30-2008, 03:41 AM
Go ahead. You know what you really wanted to say bro..........................................heath kills wolf when it comes to the shredded butt cheeks. Lol.:D

In all honesty I really don't even think that's a fair bodypart to judge. Almost all of us brothas have naturally lean, muscly asses. Its just how we are built So to me it seems common place that most black bodybuilders will have naturally leaner more developed glutes when dieted down.

Whoa? Is that an all-american reference? Bruthas with muscly asses? Must be from the ancestors squattin on dat dere plantations. Strong stereotype, DD. Ask Urkle if his ass is muscly. Damn, bro.

LOL!! I had to call you. . .

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 03:43 AM
Whoa? Is that an all-american reference? Bruthas with muscly asses? Must be from the ancestors squattin on dat dere plantations. Strong stereotype, DD. Ask Urkle if his ass is muscly. Damn, bro.

LOL!! I had to call you. . .

Just being honest bro. You know what I mean. I am talking in terms of athletes not just the general populus. Most of the brothers you see in sports all have have big muscular asses with small bones and high muscle insertions. It's just how we are typically built.

You will rarely ever see an in shape brotha with a flat and/or flabby ass. We just don't tend hold a lot of fat their at lower bodyfat levels. Though we do tend to carry more muscle mass in that area.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 03:51 AM
Just being honest bro. You know what I mean. I am talking in terms of athletes not just the general populus. Most of the brothers you see in sports all have have big muscular asses with small bones and high muscle insertions. It's just how we are typically built.

You will rarely ever see an in shape brotha with a flat and/or flabby ass. We just don't tend hold a lot of fat their at lower bodyfat levels. Though we do tend to carry more muscle mass in that area.

I know. I'm just fcuking with ya.

Watch out for those blue-eyed, blonde headed, all-american dudes, tho.

flangmasterj
04-30-2008, 04:01 AM
No, Dennis has him beat in the rear lat spread and shoulders.

Shoulders??

Your kidding me? Sure Dennis has large shoulders but the tie-in to his arms suck balls. They're like a set of kankles.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/781mpf0163-1.jpg

P.S That arrow took me far to long to do. Is their an arrow shape in Photoshop?

Npeart
04-30-2008, 04:05 AM
Shoulders??

Your kidding me? Sure Dennis has large shoulders but the tie-in to his arms suck balls. They're like a set of kankles.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/781mpf0163-1.jpg

P.S That arrow took me far to long to do. Is their an arrow shape in Photoshop?

I think Phil is the more complete and genetically gifted bb'er, but I'm not prepared to say Dennis' shoulders are lacking.

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 04:07 AM
I know. I'm just fcuking with ya.

Watch out for those blue-eyed, blonde headed, all-american dudes, tho.

What about the mafioso italians?:eek:

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 04:08 AM
Shoulders??

Your kidding me? Sure Dennis has large shoulders but the tie-in to his arms suck balls. They're like a set of kankles.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/781mpf0163-1.jpg

P.S That arrow took me far to long to do. Is their an arrow shape in Photoshop?

Lol. Wolf easily has the best set of delts in the ifbb. A mantle handed to him when Rhul stepped down. For you to question this is laughable at best.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 04:09 AM
What about the mafioso italians?:eek:

Yep, better watch out my goombahs, too. Those greasy-haired, ginny, dago, whops are dangerous.

*leave the gun, take the cannoli*

flangmasterj
04-30-2008, 04:11 AM
Lol. Wolf easily has the best set of delts in the ifbb. A mantle handed to him when Rhul stepped down. For you to question this is laughable at best.

Hahaha now I know you're talking ****.

This is how they should look.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/781mpf0163better.jpg

flangmasterj
04-30-2008, 04:20 AM
"Easily has the best delts in the IFBB"

I'm not saying Phil has the best that would probably go to Dexter but Dennis' are sure as hell not better than Phil's.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/dennislol.jpg

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 04:22 AM
Yep, better watch out my goombahs, too. Those greasy-haired, ginny, dago, whops are dangerous.

*leave the gun, take the cannoli*

Nah. Besides the obvious racism I've always thought you all were alright.

-Drive bys
-Gaudy jewelry
-Handling beef through dollar for dollar in the street

So many similarities. It's like you all are our ivory brothas. Lol!.:D

Npeart
04-30-2008, 04:26 AM
Nah. Besides the obvious racism I've always thought you all were alright.

-Drive bys
-Gaudy jewelry
-Handling beef through dollar for dollar in the street

So many similarities. It's like you all are our ivory brothas. Lol!.:D

Yeah, many of my Italian brothers do not much care for da bruthas. They call you, "melanzana," which means eggplant in Italian.

Funny, you don't look purple to me. . . WTF do I know?

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 04:27 AM
"Easily has the best delts in the IFBB"

I'm not saying Phil has the best that would probably go to Dexter but Dennis' are sure as hell not better than Phil's.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/dennislol.jpg


Ha,ha. F U C K I N G lol! You had the AUDACITY to even think about comparing wolf and heath in the SHOULDERS/DELTS dept? You must have really LOST your mind.

Arms I'd give you that.
Hamstrings as well.
Hell overall detail and muscle maturity I'd give you.
Even when it comes to ripped glutes for the homos I'd even give you that.

But for you to even TRY to compare heath's shoulders to the MIGHTY beowolf's is a TRAVESTY. But I say this to you, coal man, sickboycage, and all of the other heath supporters. All these bubu pics that are not to scale are cute and all but someone WILL be dwarfed on the olympia stage.

And I can GUARANTEE it won't be beowolf. I can't wait because I will have my own thread set up at that date. And I'm calling out everyone who has been spouting bull**** and backing it up with these useless NON TO SCALE comparison pics where me and my 2 year old nephew would look of the same size/height.

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 04:30 AM
Yeah, many of my Italian brothers do not much care for da bruthas. They call you, "melanzana," which means eggplant in Italian.

Funny, you don't look purple to me. . . WTF do I know?

I always thought you all called us mullians or some **** like that?

wilwn
04-30-2008, 04:31 AM
Ha,ha. F U C K I N G lol! You had the AUDACITY to even think about comparing wolf and heath in the SHOULDERS/DELTS dept? You must have really LOST your mind.

Arms I'd give you that.
Hamstrings as well.
Hell overall detail and muscle maturity I'd give you.
Even when it comes to ripped glutes for the homos I'd even give you that.

But for you to even TRY to compare heath's shoulders to the MIGHTY beowolf's is a TRAVESTY. But I say this to you, coal man, sickboycage, and all of the other heath supporters. All these bubu pics that are not to scale are cute and all but someone WILL be dwarfed on the olympia stage.

And I can GUARANTEE it won't be beowolf. I can't wait because I will have my own thread set up at that date. And I'm calling out everyone who has been spouting bull**** and backing it up with these useless NON TO SCALE comparison pics where me and my 2 year old nephew would look of the same size/height.

DD mad

flangmasterj
04-30-2008, 04:32 AM
Damn man I was even nice enough to scale Dennis' picture up. What do you like so much about Dennis' shoulders?

Captain Sagara
04-30-2008, 04:38 AM
I'm all Heath but i give shoulders/delts to Wolf,his clavicles are wide as hell and his delts are not delts,those freaking things are basketballs attached to his shoulders...

Also i may give quads to Dennis as well,they are not as detailed and separated as Heath's but his quad sweep,fullness and size are amazing and defintely can hang with guys like Branch or Bautista...

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 04:39 AM
Damn man I was even nice enough to scale Dennis' picture up. What do you like so much about Dennis' shoulders?

Because they are W I D E.


Let me be real for a sec here.

Both of these men represent something very special and rarely seen in their persepective races which is what makes them so different.

Heath has great muscle maturity and graininess coupled with low muscle insertions. You rarely see this combo on most black bodybuilders. Especially in the calf area where most blacks have very high calves but he does not.

Wolf has a super wide frame. That in intself is nothing special. We've seen a lot of white bodybuilders with big, wide shoulders but they always have a wide waist to match. See rhul, yates, cutler. But never has one had the wide frame with the small hips/narrow waist that is typically associated with black bodybuilders who usually have smaller bonestructures.

So like I said before both of these men bring something very special to the table. But to compare them in terms of the front relaxed/shoulders depts is LAUGHABLE at best because that is where wolf SHINES. Also you all keep stating that wolf's arms are nothing special yet they hold their own against heaths in thate pic. Chalk another one up for my boy.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 04:40 AM
I always thought you all called us mullians or some **** like that?

It's pronounced, Melanzana. But the dumb ginnies say, Mulliyana.

And don't say "YOU." I do not use that word to describe my Afro-American bruthas.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 04:41 AM
I'm all Heath but i give shoulders/delts to Wolf,his clavicles are wide as hell and his delts are not delts,those freaking things are basketballs attached to his shoulders...

Nah, bowling balls, though. . .

Kiwi_
04-30-2008, 04:43 AM
This thread needs moar shoulders.

http://www.2-bodybuilding.com/uploads/posts/thumbs/1179844463_de1.jpg
http://www.zon************/users/17/64/07/avatars/5-62.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/deserusan/wolf4.jpg

cyberdome82
04-30-2008, 04:45 AM
LOL! I almost forgot this was a Flex vs Ronnie thread!

Captain Sagara
04-30-2008, 04:47 AM
His rear delts are just retardedly huge...

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 04:53 AM
This thread needs moar shoulders.

http://www.2-bodybuilding.com/uploads/posts/thumbs/1179844463_de1.jpg
http://www.zon************/users/17/64/07/avatars/5-62.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/deserusan/wolf4.jpg

http://www.chez-schf.com/8~Dragons/Nyet%20Slobber/Nyet%20Slobber%20Half%20Inch.GIF













































Moar!!!:eek:

flangmasterj
04-30-2008, 04:56 AM
This thread needs moar shoulders.

You're not wrong.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/787mppmf0516.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/787mppmf0518.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/787rb1360.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/785mpf357-1.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/IMG_3775.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/IMG_3778.jpg

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 04:57 AM
LOL! I almost forgot this was a Flex vs Ronnie thread!

Nah. We've had enough escilene vs. good ol' bbq sauce in this thread.

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 04:58 AM
You're not wrong.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/787mppmf0516.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/787mppmf0518.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/787rb1360.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/785mpf357-1.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/IMG_3775.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/IMG_3778.jpg

Now those are some delicious chocolate orbs right there. And his arms are UNREAL in that last shot. And I have never been a arms guy. They are more of a teenage obsessed muscle group in my opinion.

But this boy has some CANNONS on him.I'm sorry but I do believe his arms have eclipsed both levrone's and flex's gunns. Especially with the size and conditioning displayed in that last pic of him. Though I know I will catch alot of flack world war 2 style for saying that. I always do.

cyberdome82
04-30-2008, 05:00 AM
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2073/mdev0702rw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2073/mdev0702rw8.98add26078.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=512&i=mdev0702rw8.jpg)

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 05:04 AM
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2073/mdev0702rw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2073/mdev0702rw8.98add26078.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=512&i=mdev0702rw8.jpg)

(lays on ground in fetal position, mind blown, slobber coming from mouth)









































M o a r :eek:

Captain Sagara
04-30-2008, 05:06 AM
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2073/mdev0702rw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2073/mdev0702rw8.98add26078.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=512&i=mdev0702rw8.jpg)

Ruhl's delts are as big as Dennis head :eek:

cyberdome82
04-30-2008, 05:12 AM
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8797/wolf1ao0wz7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8797/wolf1ao0wz7.5a28c12620.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=521&i=wolf1ao0wz7.jpg)

wilwn
04-30-2008, 06:19 AM
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2073/mdev0702rw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2073/mdev0702rw8.98add26078.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=512&i=mdev0702rw8.jpg)

as impressive as wolf's shoulders are, ruhl's are just mind-boggling

sikboy
04-30-2008, 06:58 AM
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSQR7ENflq8&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSQR7ENflq8&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
That was so close, it all depends on what you prefer mass or aesthetics, although Flex had some great mass with awesome aesthetics, Ronnie had unreal mass with good aesthetics back then, its too close for me to judge even now, i would have to see those 2 go head to head in a posedown for me to decide.

Piteng
04-30-2008, 07:15 AM
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2073/mdev0702rw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2073/mdev0702rw8.98add26078.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=512&i=mdev0702rw8.jpg)

holy ****!!! O_o

Newbtime
04-30-2008, 08:50 AM
You're not wrong.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/785mpf357-1.jpg


lol im sorry but that loooks horrible to me

his freaking biceps are bigger then his chest, so out of proportion, I don't see the appeal.

Captain Sagara
04-30-2008, 09:29 AM
lol im sorry but that loooks horrible to me

his freaking biceps are bigger then his chest, so out of proportion, I don't see the appeal.

Love that pic,that fact alone you mentioned give him the "WOW" and freaky factor and you can see how conditioned he was...

Newbtime
04-30-2008, 09:34 AM
that fact alone you mentioned give him the "WOW" and freaky factor

me saying he is out of proportion and looks terrible really means im impressed by it? lol whut? :confused:

Duckenheimer
04-30-2008, 09:46 AM
Love that pic,that fact alone you mentioned give him the "WOW" and freaky factor and you can see how conditioned he was...

I personally think he has a "Wow" factor in that pose despite the flawed proportions, but that is just a plain dumb thing to say.

Mrtsoy
04-30-2008, 10:05 AM
Hmmm, isn't Phil like Half white anyway? probly how he got his calves. IMO, Heath has had a better career due to the support he's been getting from the bbing community especially from the top pros. However, I think Dennis has way more potential than heath, he simply has more room to improve while already looking like a Mr. O.

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 10:41 AM
as impressive as wolf's shoulders are, ruhl's are just mind-boggling

Yep wolf's shoulders are not quite as massive as rhul's in his prime just yet. But he will get there. I remember I always said a young rhul would never surpass paul dillet in the width dept. But in time he did. It took a while though.

RippedGuitarist
04-30-2008, 04:04 PM
Ronnie's lines belong to the best in the history of the sport...


And here we go again with the aesthetics argument (guardian is trolling once again). What are you guys lokking at?


First off, it was no contest. Ronnie won with perfect scores and Flex can be happy to be in the top 5 because I think he should be penalized for his oil-shoulders/biceps/calves....

Second: even the standing relaxed video where the winner is announced, I see a way more balanced and more aesthetic Ronnie Coleman. His dramatic taper stands out, his muscle shape is beautiful.


But what about Flex?

Narrow clavicle (got chest?), oiled everything, small legs...What is beautiful? I TELL YOU WHAT! The ONLY thing which seems to be beautiful for some of you is that Flex is MUCH smaller than Coleman which is a sad argument with regard to the aesthetic issue.

So all in all:

Ronnie is: more conditioned, more balanced, much bigger, more aesthetic, more impressive in general.

Thx.

Once again, aesthetics are subjective. Ronnie being more aesthetic is your opinion.

Aesthetics has no direct correlation to size in my opinion. When I use the terms aesthetics, I'm talking about the shape of the muscles, lines, how well one muscle flows with the other, balance, the person's frame. Essentially it has a lot to do with genetics and genetic appearance. Size does come in to play to a degree, but to me its more in relation to the persons frame and how much muscle fits their physique.

For example, like Jay Cutler now versus 2001. I think he has too much size on his frame, he lost his aesthetics IMO. Also I think Ronnie was more aesthetically pleasing in 98 and 99 than 2003, IMO he just got too big. Though I will say he carried that amount of size better than anyone has, and he sure was impressive in 03 because of that. But then I can take the opposite end of things and say Victor Martinez is more aesthetically pleasing than almost everyone smaller than him.

As I said I think Ronnie should have won the show because his size, conditioning and because Flex's obvious use of oil. But who's to say Ronnie hasn't used it either, maybe he knows how to use it properly. Maybe he doesn't use it excessively. Its really hard to say to be honest. I think we're all more familiar with the appearance of an excessive use of oil than a so called "proper" amount.

Frankdaddy
04-30-2008, 04:15 PM
But who's to say Ronnie hasn't used it either, maybe he knows how to use it properly. Maybe he doesn't use it excessively. Its really hard to say to be honest. I think we're all more familiar with the appearance of an excessive use of oil than a so called "proper" amount.


I think if Ronnie used it then his lats would have been more even in 2006 and his tricep would have never been noticed missing, and he probably would have won in 2006 for that reason as well. So I really dont think he used synthol in my opinion.

RippedGuitarist
04-30-2008, 04:47 PM
I think if Ronnie used it then his lats would have been more even in 2006 and his tricep would have never been noticed missing, and he probably would have won in 2006 for that reason as well. So I really dont think he used synthol in my opinion.

Yeah I honestly don't think he did either, but its just hard to say for sure.

DPNZ
04-30-2008, 07:07 PM
Shoulders??

Your kidding me? Sure Dennis has large shoulders but the tie-in to his arms suck balls. They're like a set of kankles.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/781mpf0163-1.jpg

P.S That arrow took me far to long to do. Is their an arrow shape in Photoshop?

LOL! I've said it before... Zero Insertion Man :)

flangmasterj
04-30-2008, 07:19 PM
LOL! I've said it before... Zero Insertion Man :)

"Oh hey, has anyone seen my ham hock?"

"Yeah Dennis has it."

Coal Man
04-30-2008, 07:50 PM
Ha,ha. F U C K I N G lol! You had the AUDACITY to even think about comparing wolf and heath in the SHOULDERS/DELTS dept? You must have really LOST your mind.

Arms I'd give you that.
Hamstrings as well.
Hell overall detail and muscle maturity I'd give you.
Even when it comes to ripped glutes for the homos I'd even give you that.

But for you to even TRY to compare heath's shoulders to the MIGHTY beowolf's is a TRAVESTY. But I say this to you, coal man, sickboycage, and all of the other heath supporters. All these bubu pics that are not to scale are cute and all but someone WILL be dwarfed on the olympia stage.

And I can GUARANTEE it won't be beowolf. I can't wait because I will have my own thread set up at that date. And I'm calling out everyone who has been spouting bull**** and backing it up with these useless NON TO SCALE comparison pics where me and my 2 year old nephew would look of the same size/height.

Dexter Jackson vs. Dennis Wolf.

Who dwarfed who?

Who beat who in the 2007 Olympia?

LOLOL I **** ON YOUR FAILED LOGIC.


4 simple lines just destroyed your whole essay.:p

Guardian
04-30-2008, 08:12 PM
Dexter Jackson vs. Dennis Wolf.

Who dwarfed who?

Who beat who in the 2007 Olympia?

LOLOL I **** ON YOUR FAILED LOGIC.


4 simple lines just destroyed your whole essay.:p

I think thats more name recognition and politics then trully beating just like Ronnie someone placed over Wolf.

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 08:28 PM
I think thats more name recognition and politics then trully beating just like Ronnie someone placed over Wolf.

Exactly. Coal man's logic using the 2007 placings is UTTER BULL**** and he knows it. A soft as tissue paper jay comes from behind to beat the best package vic marinez has EVER brought to the stage.

And a beat down, worn out injured ronnie with half a body who can NOT even complete a simple lat spread due to nerve damage somehow places in the top 4. Give me a f u c k i n g break. Those placings don't mean jack ****. Two people who looked like **** night were given gifts. Point, blank, and simple.

So that alone makes those placings for the entire top five NULL AND VOID. Period.

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 08:32 PM
As a matter of facts. Guys please get me some comparison pics of dex, beowolf, and big ron at the 2007 oiympia. It's time to put this worn out sham coal man keeps holding onto the bed. Reps to who ever get these up for me. Thanks.

Guardian
04-30-2008, 08:38 PM
The problem with the Olympia dating back even through Haneys years is that the judging seems to be less about the overall package and more about the back. So its almost like there is two ways of looking at it one is back has the biggest weight in placing and another is everything has equal weight. I think if you use the back methodology you could almost agree with every Olympia placing for the past 25 years.

The problem is bodybuilding really has no clear cut judging criteria. Sure people can bs that its the "best overall package" but even then thats debatable because someone like Dexter to me has a better "overall" package then Cutler or Coleman.

The Olympia is about Back then conditioning then everything else. Thats why Coleman beat Flex in 99, thats why Yates beat Nasser in 97, and thats why Cutler beat Martinez in 2007 because in all cases the winner had the better back (though in 07 its very close).

DiamondDelts
04-30-2008, 08:44 PM
The problem with the Olympia dating back even through Haneys years is that the judging seems to be less about the overall package and more about the back. So its almost like there is two ways of looking at it one is back has the biggest weight in placing and another is everything has equal weight. I think if you use the back methodology you could almost agree with every Olympia placing for the past 25 years.

The problem is bodybuilding really has no clear cut judging criteria. Sure people can bs that its the "best overall package" but even then thats debatable because someone like Dexter to me has a better "overall" package then Cutler or Coleman.

The Olympia is about Back then conditioning then everything else. Thats why Coleman beat Flex in 99, thats why Yates beat Nasser in 97, and thats why Cutler beat Martinez in 2007 because in all cases the winner had the better back (though in 07 its very close).

Well then we get into more specific territory now. How bout who wins when one guy has the widest back with less detail vs. a guy with a very detailed but narrow back.

wilwn
04-30-2008, 08:57 PM
As a matter of facts. Guys please get me some comparison pics of dex, beowolf, and big ron at the 2007 oiympia. It's time to put this worn out sham coal man keeps holding onto the bed. Reps to who ever get these up for me. Thanks.

http://www.2-bodybuilding.com/uploads/posts/2007-09/1191089545_nr0m5815.jpg

ronnie's clearly out of his prime. melvin looks soft. dexter looks really detailed, but can't compete with wolf's insane width.

CunnyFunt
04-30-2008, 08:57 PM
As a matter of facts. Guys please get me some comparison pics of dex, beowolf, and big ron at the 2007 oiympia. It's time to put this worn out sham coal man keeps holding onto the bed. Reps to who ever get these up for me. Thanks.

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/_M2X4105.jpg
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/_M2X4097.jpg
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/_T7A4941.jpg

I hate to say it, bc i am NOT a wolf fan, but he does make the biggest boys in the world look rather small

wilwn
04-30-2008, 09:04 PM
anyone have the one where it's a close-up of ronnie, dexter, and wolf in the final posedown?

Alfz
04-30-2008, 09:19 PM
http://www.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/_M2X4105.jpg


I hate to say it, bc i am NOT a wolf fan, but he does make the biggest boys in the world look rather small

I never knew Wolf's quads lacked lines :eek:

Compared to cutlers

darvoz
04-30-2008, 09:57 PM
Flex in that vid...

Npeart
04-30-2008, 10:36 PM
Now those are some delicious chocolate orbs right there. And his arms are UNREAL in that last shot. And I have never been a arms guy. They are more of a teenage obsessed muscle group in my opinion.

But this boy has some CANNONS on him.I'm sorry but I do believe his arms have eclipsed both levrone's and flex's gunns. Especially with the size and conditioning displayed in that last pic of him. Though I know I will catch alot of flack world war 2 style for saying that. I always do.

Nope. You are 100% accurate in your assessment. Phil Heath has the best arms in the history of bb'ing. Show me bigger and more conditioned arms on any pro. And do not come in here with Lee Preist's arms. They are impressive, but not like Phil's.

Captain Sagara
04-30-2008, 11:33 PM
Nope. You are 100% accurate in your assessment. Phil Heath has the best arms in the history of bb'ing. Show me bigger and more conditioned arms on any pro. And do not come in here with Lee Preist's arms. They are impressive, but not like Phil's.

Only guy i see with arms as good as Heath that actually surprass Heath is Levrone but off course he doesn't compete anymore...

rocco421
04-30-2008, 11:36 PM
if we're talkin guns, heath is supreme, but centopani is coming on quick, he has ridiculous tricep genetics as well.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 11:37 PM
Only guy i see with arms as good as Heath that actually surprass Heath is Levrone but off course he doesn't compete anymore...

Yes and no. Kevin's tris were crazy big, but I do not think his bi's are as big as Phil's. Plus, Kevin's conditioning is not as good.

Captain Sagara
04-30-2008, 11:41 PM
Yes and no. Kevin's tris were crazy big, but I do not think his bi's are as big as Phil's. Plus, Kevin's conditioning is not as good.

but Kevin used to be 250 on stage,i don't know if Heath will keep that insane conditioning if he will ever reach 250 on stage...

wilwn
04-30-2008, 11:43 PM
i'd personally go with levrone overall just because he's a bit wider and doesn't looked as cramped.

i do think that heath's overall muscle quality and conditioning are better.

Npeart
04-30-2008, 11:45 PM
but Kevin used to be 250 on stage,i don't know if Heath will keep that insane conditioning if he will ever reach 250 on stage...

Kevin is wider than Phil, so his frame can hold 250 on stage. Phil would have to blow up to 270-275 off season to be 250 on stage. I can't see him coming in conditioned at 250 - not without ruining his waistline. The assertion being made here is Phil's arms are the best of all-time. His combination of size AND condition lead me to say so. Kevin's arms were amazing. I just think Phil's are unlike anything we've seen heretofore.

Captain Sagara
04-30-2008, 11:48 PM
Kevin is wider than Phil, so his frame can hold 250 on stage. Phil would have to blow up to 270-275 off season to be 250 on stage. I can't see him coming in conditioned at 250 - not without ruining his waistline. The assertion being made here is Phil's arms are the best of all-time. His combination of size AND condition lead me to say so. Kevin's arms were amazing. I just think Phil's are unlike anything we've seen heretofore.

What might give the edge to Heath over any bber in arms is that sick brachialis separation that i ver seen in any other...

Npeart
04-30-2008, 11:49 PM
What might give the edge to Heath over any bber in arms is that sick brachialis separation that i ver seen in any other...

Well, see, that's a great observation. And because he comes in so peeled it really shows. His arms in any MM pose is just off-the-hook.

Captain Sagara
04-30-2008, 11:55 PM
Priest's arms can match Heaqth indeed but they lack the separation and conditioning Phil has but in other hand Priest's arms are probably the thickest arms i ever seen since sergio and with sick vascularity...

Npeart
04-30-2008, 11:56 PM
Priest's arms can match Heaqth indeed but they lack the separation and conditioning Phil has but in other hand they probably the thickest arms i ever seen since sergio and with sick vascularity...

Well that's what set's Phil's arms apart: separation and condition. Not to mention awesome mass.

realistromeo
05-01-2008, 12:11 AM
Phill has some freaky arm development, his bracioradialus, and his forearm flexors are unreal!...

He doesn't have the best guns EVAR (YET) Just My opinion...he's probably #1 on some peoples lists. but he certainly ranks easily in the top 10 heck possibly top 5 in my books.

Dillett, Sergio,mattarazzo,levrone, Vince talyor, Arnold. Larry Scott,Lee priest, Greg valentino.

Personaly his arms are freaky but not massive meaty hogs like dilletts or sergios or Mattarazo's for that matter. (i like arms that look inhuman aka BIGGER THAN YOUR HEAD!))

What he does have is insane depth, great attachments and separation.

Kiwi_
05-01-2008, 12:40 AM
Phill has some freaky arm development, his bracioradialus, and his forearm flexors are unreal!...

He doesn't have the best guns EVAR (YET) Just My opinion...he's probably #1 on some peoples lists. but he certainly ranks easily in the top 10 heck possibly top 5 in my books.

Dillett, Sergio,mattarazzo,levrone, Vince talyor, Arnold. Larry Scott,Lee priest, Greg valentino.

Personaly his arms are freaky but not massive meaty hogs like dilletts or sergios or Mattarazo's for that matter. (i like arms that look inhuman aka BIGGER THAN YOUR HEAD!))

What he does have is insane depth, great attachments and separation.

Wat

Radok
05-01-2008, 01:04 PM
Dillett, Sergio,mattarazzo,levrone, Vince talyor, Arnold. Larry Scott,Lee priest, GREG VALENTINO.



Sorry, but there goes all your credibility.

Radok
05-01-2008, 01:06 PM
Wat

Lol you caught that too. Ronnie's arms are bigger than levrone's and have insane separation. Him, sergio, and Lee probably have my top 3 favorite arms.

Captain Sagara
05-01-2008, 01:13 PM
Dillett, Sergio,mattarazzo,levrone, Vince talyor, Arnold. Larry Scott,Lee priest, Greg valentino.


Dillett's arms were big that was about it...

Sergio's were Huge,super thick and definetly make the top 5 of all time,they lacked separation thought...

Mattarazzo's were huge but really didn't had much more then size and vascularity...

Levrone probably had the best guns of all time...

Vince Taylor's had the nice shape and overall good arms but not worthy of a top 10 IMO

Arnold had sick bis but he had very weak tris...

Larry Scott's were pretty average

Lee Priest has probably the thickest arms since Sergio,top 5 worthy all the way...

Greg Valentino,C'MON

woofman81
05-01-2008, 02:19 PM
Dillett's arms were big that was about it...

Sergio's were Huge,super thick and definetly make the top 5 of all time,they lacked separation thought...

Mattarazzo's were huge but really didn't had much more then size and vascularity...

Levrone probably had the best guns of all time...

Vince Taylor's had the nice shape and overall good arms but not worthy of a top 10 IMO

Arnold had sick bis but he had very weak tris...

Larry Scott's were pretty average

Lee Priest has probably the thickest arms since Sergio,top 5 worthy all the way...

Greg Valentino,C'MON

Are you kidding me? Levrone best arms of all time? Lol!!

What a joke. Ronnie's arms (before left tricep went to crap) were way better than Levrone's ever were in my opinon. More vascular, seperation, size, etc.

Compare the two in a front double bi for example.

Captain Sagara
05-01-2008, 02:23 PM
Are you kidding me? Levrone best arms of all time? Lol!!

What a joke. Ronnie's arms (before left tricep went to crap) were way better than Levrone's ever were in my opinon. More vascular, seperation, size, etc.

Compare the two in a front double bi for example.

That's the thing Bis i give to Ronnie no problem but Levrone had the tris by a mile over Ronnie...

flangmasterj
05-01-2008, 02:39 PM
Levrone had the tris by a mile over Ronnie...

The only pose where levrones arms looked better than Ron's was the side tri. Every other pose Ronnies arms blew Kevins away.

Captain Sagara
05-01-2008, 02:52 PM
The only pose where levrones arms looked better than Ron's was the side tri. Every other pose Ronnies arms blew Kevins away.



http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/9868/kevinlevrone9ej2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/9868/kevinlevrone9ej2.564fee5a5b.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=364&i=kevinlevrone9ej2.jpg)

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6683/kevinlevrone6ox7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6683/kevinlevrone6ox7.bea6bb7626.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=175&i=kevinlevrone6ox7.jpg)

DiamondDelts
05-01-2008, 02:54 PM
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/9868/kevinlevrone9ej2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/9868/kevinlevrone9ej2.564fee5a5b.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=364&i=kevinlevrone9ej2.jpg)

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6683/kevinlevrone6ox7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6683/kevinlevrone6ox7.bea6bb7626.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=175&i=kevinlevrone6ox7.jpg)

I agree. Best perm of any ifbb pro.

Alfz
05-01-2008, 09:48 PM
Actually i still think Priest's arms are still the best

He's got the HUGE mass in his arms i doubt not many will attain.

And i thought his arms were looking really conditioned/detail too?? :confused:

flangmasterj
05-01-2008, 09:58 PM
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/9868/kevinlevrone9ej2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/9868/kevinlevrone9ej2.564fee5a5b.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=364&i=kevinlevrone9ej2.jpg)

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6683/kevinlevrone6ox7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6683/kevinlevrone6ox7.bea6bb7626.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=175&i=kevinlevrone6ox7.jpg)

GTFO!

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/2001-arnold-classic-114.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/2001-arnold-classic-92.jpg

Penile_Dementia
05-01-2008, 10:36 PM
Ronnie is much bigger and so much more sharp and doesn't have Flex's strong symmetry issues.

How people figure Flex won it is beyond me.

Kiwi_
05-01-2008, 11:10 PM
Symmetry issues? wasn't Flex known as the sultan of symmetry?

AcUtaBoVe
05-01-2008, 11:27 PM
[QUOTE=Kiwi_n00b;160785591]Symmetry issues? wasn't Flex known as the sultan of symmetry?[

No Darrem Charles is

Kiwi_
05-01-2008, 11:32 PM
I guess they were both given that nickname.

DiamondDelts
05-01-2008, 11:59 PM
I guess they were both given that nickname.

Flex was given that nickname years before darrem charles was on the scene.

Reisinger850
05-02-2008, 04:35 AM
GTFO!

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/2001-arnold-classic-114.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/2001-arnold-classic-92.jpg

Owned. Ronnie's arms > Levrone's arms.Anyplace, anywhere, anytime....

You know.... Detail, Seperation, Shape, Mass...

wilwn
05-02-2008, 05:13 AM
Owned. Ronnie's arms > Levrone's arms.Anyplace, anywhere, anytime....

You know.... Detail, Seperation, Shape, Mass...

eh, this is highly debatable. levrone's triceps were far superior. i would say his delts were also better than ronnie's.

Radok
05-02-2008, 05:25 AM
eh, this is highly debatable. levrone's triceps were far superior. i would say his delts were also better than ronnie's.

I don't really see how it's debatable. Ronnie's arms were much bigger, any time they stood next to each other it's readily apparent. And ronnie's bis have full separation and great vascularity all over the arms. Tris are bigger as well. Levrone's were sharp and dry but not enough to make up for Ronnie's size and separation, as well as the fact that ronnie's were in proportion to the rest of his body better.

Reisinger850
05-02-2008, 06:05 AM
eh, this is highly debatable. levrone's triceps were far superior. i would say his delts were also better than ronnie's.

Well I don't really understand where it is debatable... Only because Levrone has a better triceps sweep doesn't change the fact that Coleman's arms are bigger overall, have more detail, sepeartion, vascularity and peaked AND split biceps...

Here we go again: all subjective, bla bla bla...

If you are objective, you cannot criticize Ronnie's arms.

Well and at least Ronnie's arms fit to his whole body...

Like an other poster has said: side tri might go to Levrone, everything else Ronnie wins with regard to arms, hands down.

Newbtime
05-02-2008, 08:23 AM
Dexter Jackson vs. Dennis Wolf.

Who dwarfed who?

Who beat who in the 2007 Olympia?

LOLOL I **** ON YOUR FAILED LOGIC.


4 simple lines just destroyed your whole essay.:p

I facepalm in real life when people say things like this about bodybuilding.


Like bob chic narrating the 2008 AC, saying like "Dexter is thinking I BEAT phil heath last year why is this even in discussion." - talking about how phil might win this years AC,They are looking at bbing as a sport with a clean cut scoring system, which there isn't so these kinds of statements dont really mean anything.

Ronnie placed ahead of wolf in the 07 O, do you seriously think annyone believes ronnie was actually better then wolf that night? lol uh hell no, ronnie was half gone, no one in their right mind would of placed ronnie ahead of wolf if they are actually judging the way they should. the placings in the 2007 mr olympia were complete bull****.

Coal Man
05-02-2008, 08:35 AM
I facepalm in real life when people say things like this about bodybuilding.


Like bob chic narrating the 2008 AC, saying like "Dexter is thinking I BEAT phil heath last year why is this even in discussion." - talking about how phil might win this years AC,They are looking at bbing as a sport with a clean cut scoring system, which there isn't so these kinds of statements dont really mean anything.

Ronnie placed ahead of wolf in the 07 O, do you seriously think annyone believes ronnie was actually better then wolf that night? lol uh hell no, ronnie was half gone, no one in their right mind would of placed ronnie ahead of wolf if they are actually judging the way they should. the placings in the 2007 mr olympia were complete bull****.

Yes I believe Ronnie was better than Wolf.

Wolf has width, but there's much more to bodybuilding besides width. There is proportion, symmetry, DENSITY and conditioning. I can't believe I have to school you on this. Wolf has width.

His lower body conditioning is off.

His hamstrings and glutes seriously lack size.

His back has hardly any thickness to it.

His lower back is very under developed.


People are just on his nuts because he's tall and wide.
Sorry but I'm a much bigger fan of overall completeness and muscle density.

sikboy
05-02-2008, 08:48 AM
Yes I believe Ronnie was better than Wolf.

Wolf has width, but there's much more to bodybuilding besides width. There is proportion, symmetry, DENSITY and conditioning. I can't believe I have to school you on this. Wolf has width.

His lower body conditioning is off.

His hamstrings and glutes seriously lack size.

His back has hardly any thickness to it.

His lower back is very under developed.


People are just on his nuts because he's tall and wide.
Sorry but I'm a much bigger fan of overall completeness and muscle density.
Ronnie pre 2006 maybe, but not Ronnie 07? No way, not with his injuries.

Im sure pics will be posted now of both athletes at the 07 O.

Reisinger850
05-02-2008, 09:32 AM
Ronnie pre 2006 maybe, but not Ronnie 07? No way, not with his injuries.

Im sure pics will be posted now of both athletes at the 07 O.

Ronnie 2006 would have been enough, pre 2006 would be no question since Ronnie was in his dominating years then.

Ronnie 2007.... Could have been placed behind Wolf, but only because of his injuries. Density and conditioning goes to Coleman IMO. And I like Wolf.

Newbtime
05-02-2008, 09:35 AM
Yes I believe Ronnie was better than Wolf.

Wolf has width, but there's much more to bodybuilding besides width. There is proportion, symmetry, DENSITY and conditioning. I can't believe I have to school you on this. Wolf has width.

His lower body conditioning is off.

His hamstrings and glutes seriously lack size.

His back has hardly any thickness to it.

His lower back is very under developed.


People are just on his nuts because he's tall and wide.
Sorry but I'm a much bigger fan of overall completeness and muscle density.

ronnies body in 06 beats wolfs in 07, but not 07 vs 07,

"Wolf has width, but there's much more to bodybuilding besides width. There is proportion, symmetry, DENSITY and conditioning. I can't believe I have to school you on this"

lol ronnie had NO symmetry or proportion in 07. he was ruined TBH. so wolf had width symmetry and proportion on ronnie, and ronnie had density on him... but is better? wut?

Duckenheimer
05-02-2008, 11:16 AM
Yes I believe Ronnie was better than Wolf.

Wolf has width, but there's much more to bodybuilding besides width. There is proportion, symmetry, DENSITY and conditioning. I can't believe I have to school you on this. Wolf has width.

His lower body conditioning is off.

His hamstrings and glutes seriously lack size.

His back has hardly any thickness to it.

His lower back is very under developed.


People are just on his nuts because he's tall and wide.
Sorry but I'm a much bigger fan of overall completeness and muscle density.

So even though Ronnie looked downright abysmal in 2007, he was better than Wolf, who looked downright fantastic.

Duckenheimer
05-02-2008, 11:17 AM
Symmetry issues? wasn't Flex known as the sultan of symmetry?

Yeah, in 1993 he deserved that title. Ridiculously OTT and smooth delts and arms put paid to that in 99.

Iceman1981
05-02-2008, 11:47 AM
eh, this is highly debatable. levrone's triceps were far superior. i would say his delts were also better than ronnie's.

Levrone's triceps were only superior in the side tricep. Ronnie's triceps are bigger with better seperation in every other pose.

Levrone's delts are better than Ronnie's from the rear, but Ronnie's delts are superior and have better seperation from the front, but both are pretty close from the side. It's close, but I would give the edge to Ronnie because of his better seperation.

As you can see, Ronnie's delts are bigger with great seperation from the front and has better seperation in his triceps than Levrone. Plus Ronnie's delts just murder Levrone's delts in the most muscular.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/Iceman1981photos/KR.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/Iceman1981photos/comp9913.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/Iceman1981photos/R99.jpg

stealth_swimmer
05-02-2008, 05:15 PM
"Easily has the best delts in the IFBB"

I'm not saying Phil has the best that would probably go to Dexter but Dennis' are sure as hell not better than Phil's.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c52/FlangMasterJ/dennislol.jpg



I prefer Heath's shape and separation as far as delts go.

Wolf has him on clavicle width, but shoulder DEVELOPMENT would go to Heath IMO. While Wolf's are probably bigger, I feel Heath's have more quality.

I don't think either have clear cut "better" delts than the other, it's a matter of what look your prefer.


Levrone's triceps were only superior in the side tricep. Ronnie's triceps are bigger with better seperation in every other pose.

Levrone's delts are better than Ronnie's from the rear, but Ronnie's delts are superior and have better seperation from the front, but both are pretty close from the side. It's close, but I would give the edge to Ronnie because of his better seperation.




agreed.

And I feel that Levrone was better when he was lighter. Once he had the size to compete with Ronnie, he lost LOTS of separation.