Over 35 Runners Thread *Serious*

[Bando]

I think you will surprise yourself in this race... Be SURE to let us know how it goes!!!


Last year when I was getting dressed for this race I was getting my running clothes on in the bathroom at Church when one of our deacons came in and mentioned he also runs. I invited him to this years race and he's gonna race with us. I was working on a project with him today and asked him what his time is like (he runs every morning.)

He runs a 5k in 16 minutes.

Last years winner was 18:11, so I've brought in a ringer.

I felt good running. My buddy won the race and came back to run with me through the finish line. I was dead but he told me "lets start picking these ones off (runners ahead). We passed 5 runners and I sprinted at the end.

Last years time 28:11 - this year, 26 minutes flat.

This has been one of the best days in my life.

[5krunner]

Great job Bando! It's certainly something to be proud of! Congrats!

[Skidmarx]

Hey anyone running this weekend? :o

[bhaputi]

Hey anyone running this weekend? :o

Always :)
I had some "work" done on my hammies by a sports massage guy Thursday at noon, then ran 3.5 quickish miles (7:45 pace) that evening, then did speedwork Friday. 1 mile warmup, 6x200M @ 13 mph. 1 mile cooldown. Felt good :)
Today was a day off (well, I lifted) and tomorrow is either another speed day (800s this time) or LSD. Not sure yet...

[5krunner]

Hey anyone running this weekend? :o

I ran 8 miles this morning and man am I feeling it now! I'll have to wait and see about tomorrow! :)

[Skidmarx]

I'm doing a HIIT session tomorrow, it has working great so far.

2 miles mod run
15min HIIT
1 mile mod run
1 mile run/walk(or possibly crawl :D )

[bhaputi]

Did a shortened tempo run yesterday with a partner.

1.25 mile warmup ( pretty slow, about 8:15-8:30 pace)
1.5 miles at 6:44 pace :eek:
1.25 mile cooldown (slow again, about 8:30 pace)

It hurt a little bit :)

[Skidmarx]

Good job. I couldn't do 1/2 mile at 6:44. :D

During my running drill yesterday, I got a cramp in my left quad. Hurt like hell. 1st time that's ever happened to me. :(

[bhaputi]

Good job. I couldn't do 1/2 mile at 6:44. :D

During my running drill yesterday, I got a cramp in my left quad. Hurt like hell. 1st time that's ever happened to me. :(

I am actually quite happy with the speed I have been able to keep up lately. I did speedwork (200M repeats) on Friday, so I was pretty sore still. Add to that getting little sleep, eating pretty horribly Friday/Saturday, and smacking the hell out of my left shin Sunday morning and I was a bit convinced I would run horribly Sunday. 10:07 for 1.5 miles is my current PR for the distance now though :)

Quad cramps do not sound fun - I used to get nasty charlie horse type cramps in my calves when I first started running. Do not miss those one bit :p

[Zaxxxon]

Hello. I'm new. Pleased to meet you all.

I run either three or four times per week out on the country lanes around where I live at about 6am. I do six miles in around 52-55 minutes. I never used to run - always hated it, but made myself do it as there probably isn't a better way of burning the old spare tyre off.

Every mile I do about 30 seconds HIIT at the end of it followed by about a minute of brisk walking, then up to a medium pace jog again. I dunno if this does any good, but it makes the heart work a little harder.

I love that time of morning. There's not a soul about and if you like birds and fluffy animals you'd think you were in a bleedin Disney film - rabbits, pheasants, the odd deer, sometimes an owl in flight or a heron. It's really quite life affirming!!

You don't get that on a treadmill!!

[wubby]

Hello. I'm new. Pleased to meet you all.

I run either three or four times per week out on the country lanes around where I live at about 6am. I do six miles in around 52-55 minutes. I never used to run - always hated it, but made myself do it as there probably isn't a better way of burning the old spare tyre off.

Every mile I do about 30 seconds HIIT at the end of it followed by about a minute of brisk walking, then up to a medium pace jog again. I dunno if this does any good, but it makes the heart work a little harder.

I love that time of morning. There's not a soul about and if you like birds and fluffy animals you'd think you were in a bleedin Disney film - rabbits, pheasants, the odd deer, sometimes an owl in flight or a heron. It's really quite life affirming!!

You don't get that on a treadmill!!

Welcome!

Bumping up your intensity during a run is (almost) always going to do you some good. I tend to drop to a jog after an interval instead of a walk though. I find that it is easier on my system, easier to get going again sooner and keeps me from slacking off to much.

Sounds like a great place to run. Sometimes I love my treadmill though. I am not one who gets bored, there is always too much going on in my head to ever get bored so I I like the treadmill with it's lack of distractions. I also get a much better workout on my treadmill in the winter months since I am not slowed down by slipping on ice.

[runner05]

Welcome, Zaxxxon!

I also love running in the a.m.'s and definitely outdoors! I do run on my treadmill more in the winter months 'cuz I'm kinda' wimpy when it comes to cold and ice, but the treadmill pretty much doesn't move in the spring, summer, or fall when I can be outside.

[IronCamp]

Did a shortened tempo run yesterday with a partner.

1.25 mile warmup ( pretty slow, about 8:15-8:30 pace)
1.5 miles at 6:44 pace :eek:
1.25 mile cooldown (slow again, about 8:30 pace)

It hurt a little bit :)

6:44...I am lucky to do a mile in double that!

I ran yesterday after working legs in the gym on Monday...bad idea, b/c I can't walk today!

I did 1.75 miles @ moderate pace
.75 mile of sprint intervals
1 mile @ moderate pace

Took me 43 minutes. Told you I was slow!

[runner05]

6:44...I am lucky to do a mile in double that!

I ran yesterday after working legs in the gym on Monday...bad idea, b/c I can't walk today!

I did 1.75 miles @ moderate pace
.75 mile of sprint intervals
1 mile @ moderate pace

Took me 43 minutes. Told you I was slow!

Never knock your running time. At least you are RUNNING! :)

[IronCamp]

Never knock your running time. At least you are RUNNING! :)

I don't. I actually don't run for speed. I just pick a time (yesterday was 45 minutes) and then run as far as I can in that amount of time.

[bhaputi]

I am paying for my aggressive use of speed the last 6 days :) I was so tired that I slept through my alarm and skipped the gym altogether this AM.
My workouts have been:
5/1 - Afternoon sports massage for hammie pain, then almost 4 miles of way-too-fast running for being so sore (7:45 miles)
5/2 - My previously mentioned tempo workout (including 1.5 miles at 6:44 pace)
5/4 - Speedwork - 200M repeats for a total of 4 miles.
5/6 - Test run of my PFT:
- Max situps in 1 minutes (got 47)
- 300M Sprint (was hurting - chili the night before :p 52.3 seconds )
- Max pushups (really starting to hurt, only cranked out 32)
- 1.5 mile run (this _really_ hurt - 10:17)

I was supposed to hit the gym for some swimming and full body workout today, but I needed the sleep :)

I think I am flirting with injury, so I may cut back a little here....

[bhaputi]

Never knock your running time. At least you are RUNNING! :)

That is actually why I tend to not post pace, but sometimes I do it just to keep myself accountable. I do have speed goals, but my overall goal (after this month) is just health....

[runner05]

That is actually why I tend to not post pace, but sometimes I do it just to keep myself accountable. I do have speed goals, but my overall goal (after this month) is just health....

Be careful... Can't have overall health if the goal for speed knocks you down! Just beat your last time every time and you should be a happy man!

Although, who am I to say? I do like to beat my previous race time, but I really run for pleasure and it seems my body tells me how fast to run 'cuz I get too lost in my own world and in my surroundings to think about my time while I'm running! I think it should just be fun!

[wubby]

Be careful... Can't have overall health if the goal for speed knocks you down! Just beat your last time every time and you should be a happy man!



This is always a problem for me. I always push it further and harder and have many times gone over the line. When you want to get better you are always treading that very fine line between perfect training and overtraining. I have a history of stepping over that line. That is the one area where getting older has helped me dramatically and why I keep getting better with age.

[Skidmarx]

Good gawd, I tried a new workout tonight. I'm on a high rep week right now on all my bodyparts, just to mix it up and burn some extra cals.

2 mile mod run
+
3x20 squats
2x15 hack squats
3x20 leg curls
2x15 SLDL's
3x20 seated calf
2x15 standing calf

I superset these, so 5 supersets.

Jelly legs! I barely made it out of my gym and into the house. :D

[Ophus]

Well I ran my first 5k race this last Tuesday. It was pretty tough a rolling terrain. Its pretty much the town I live in and run everyday though, which made it nice. I set a goal to run it in 24:00, my time was 24:08 so I almost made it. I still thought it a success since that is my fast non flat 5k distance to date and my first race ever.

[bhaputi]

Ophus - good job!

[5krunner]

Nice work Ophus!

[bhaputi]

First real 5K of the year, and I have a new PR - 22:28. Also got a trophy for 1st place in my age group. 18th overall out of about 100 registered runners. woot! :)

[wubby]

First real 5K of the year, and I have a new PR - 22:28. Also got a trophy for 1st place in my age group. 18th overall out of about 100 registered runners. woot! :)

Nice race - good job man!

[5krunner]

First real 5K of the year, and I have a new PR - 22:28. Also got a trophy for 1st place in my age group. 18th overall out of about 100 registered runners. woot! :)


Great run! Nice work!!

[DeanC]

Newbie here. This thread caught my attention. I love running, nothing better for Cardio in my opinion although on bad weather days (mostly too hot) I have an Elliptical Octane Q37e for supplementation. I was at 230 lbs when I began running and weightlifting almost a couple years ago and have dropped down to 190lb. For losing weight I was told running first thing in the morning out of bed without taking anything but water was the best for burning stored fat and it seemed to work for me. Like many of you on here have expressed I've gone through the knee pains, shin splints, sore heels and many different shoes till I found the Brooks line works best for me, but every foot is different and you really should have a running shoe store fit you for the best fit for your individual foot. It wasn't till I did that, that I began to have less soreness issues afterwards. I'm running anywhere from 3-6 miles several days a week around 5am before the sun comes up, to light my way I bought one of those head strap on flashlights and bought a Garmin Forerunner 305 runners watch and I love that thing. Right now I'm running around 26min 5k with my best being a 25.39. However, I'm in Florida at the beach and don't have any hills so I often wonder what hills would do to not only my time but my distance. Have any of you done both separately and seen the difference?

[Bando]

Newbie here. This thread caught my attention. I love running, nothing better for Cardio in my opinion although on bad weather days (mostly too hot) I have an Elliptical Octane Q37e for supplementation. I was at 230 lbs when I began running and weightlifting almost a couple years ago and have dropped down to 190lb. For losing weight I was told running first thing in the morning out of bed without taking anything but water was the best for burning stored fat and it seemed to work for me. Like many of you on here have expressed I've gone through the knee pains, shin splints, sore heels and many different shoes till I found the Brooks line works best for me, but every foot is different and you really should have a running shoe store fit you for the best fit for your individual foot. It wasn't till I did that, that I began to have less soreness issues afterwards. I'm running anywhere from 3-6 miles several days a week around 5am before the sun comes up, to light my way I bought one of those head strap on flashlights and bought a Garmin Forerunner 305 runners watch and I love that thing. Right now I'm running around 26min 5k with my best being a 25.39. However, I'm in Florida at the beach and don't have any hills so I often wonder what hills would do to not only my time but my distance. Have any of you done both separately and seen the difference?

Sorry I missed your post. Holy cow - running is working for you exactly like it should. That 25:39 is a tasty little number, I would like to see that after my name. Nice work

[Bando]

First real 5K of the year, and I have a new PR - 22:28. Also got a trophy for 1st place in my age group. 18th overall out of about 100 registered runners. woot! :)

sweet. Nice time bro.

[Ophus]

5krunner, bhaputi

Thanks for the support, I'm pretty happy with it being my first. Now if I can get down to 22:28 like bhaputi, nice job by the way.

[Ophus]

Newbie here. This thread caught my attention. I love running, nothing better for Cardio in my opinion although on bad weather days (mostly too hot) I have an Elliptical Octane Q37e for supplementation. I was at 230 lbs when I began running and weightlifting almost a couple years ago and have dropped down to 190lb. For losing weight I was told running first thing in the morning out of bed without taking anything but water was the best for burning stored fat and it seemed to work for me. Like many of you on here have expressed I've gone through the knee pains, shin splints, sore heels and many different shoes till I found the Brooks line works best for me, but every foot is different and you really should have a running shoe store fit you for the best fit for your individual foot. It wasn't till I did that, that I began to have less soreness issues afterwards. I'm running anywhere from 3-6 miles several days a week around 5am before the sun comes up, to light my way I bought one of those head strap on flashlights and bought a Garmin Forerunner 305 runners watch and I love that thing. Right now I'm running around 26min 5k with my best being a 25.39. However, I'm in Florida at the beach and don't have any hills so I often wonder what hills would do to not only my time but my distance. Have any of you done both separately and seen the difference?

Hi DeanC,

I have the 305 and love it, its nice not having to run a predetermined route and still have distance and time, just go where the wind blows as the saying goes.

I live in the Appalachian mountains, but am fortunate that i have a track near my house. I run the streets often and the track frequently. For me personally I can get about 30 seconds per mile faster on the track, with a 5k distance, than when running the hills around the house. I'm not talking mountains or anything, just rolling terrain. This may be different for other people and conditions, its just a personal observation.

Good job keep up the work!

[runner05]

Well I ran my first 5k race this last Tuesday. It was pretty tough a rolling terrain. Its pretty much the town I live in and run everyday though, which made it nice. I set a goal to run it in 24:00, my time was 24:08 so I almost made it. I still thought it a success since that is my fast non flat 5k distance to date and my first race ever.

**claps** Yeah!!! Great time!

I have my first half marathon on Saturday and I'm a little nervous, as I had to take some off during training, but I'm hoping all will go well!!!

[bhaputi]

5krunner, bhaputi

Thanks for the support, I'm pretty happy with it being my first. Now if I can get down to 22:28 like bhaputi, nice job by the way.

It has taken much work to get there. I had the whole newbie gains thing going on when I dropped from 38+ for a 5K down to 27 minutes or so within about 18 months with no real training. Getting from 27 down to 22 was much tougher - I spent this whole winter doing speedwork once a week in addition to logging 20-30 miles weekly, all outside (except for 2 runs due to ice).

It can be done, though. I was a 300 pound lard ass 6 years ago - now I am still fat as far as runners go (6'2" 200 pound runners are not the norm), but I am happy :)

Now, getting below 20 minutes will be much tougher for me, I am sure.....

[bhaputi]

DeanC - I love the 305. I love not having to pre-plan my runs anymore and still being able to know my distance. I change the display to only show a single number, though, either mileage or time depending on whether I have a time constraint or not. I then evaluate the info after the run. Keeps me from running too fast on easy days :)

As for the hills, they contribute much more than you would think, IMHO. As an example, look at my splits for this last 5K.
Mile 1: mostly flat, some downhill - 6:29
Mile 2: sharp downhills and then turning around and doing sharp uphills - 7:46
Mile 3: "Gentle" uphill the whole mile pretty much, with a very sharp uphill in the last .1 - 8:13
I ran at pretty much equal effort the whole way, so the nasty hills toward the end effectively added almost 2 minutes per mile to my pace.

If you want to race hills, work them into your training. A single day per week of hill workouts will make you stronger all around. I have a good .25 mile hill by my house that I regularly incorporate (hill repeats - ouch).

[5krunner]

**claps** Yeah!!! Great time!

I have my first half marathon on Saturday and I'm a little nervous, as I had to take some off during training, but I'm hoping all will go well!!!

Best of luck Saturday Lori! I'm sure you'll do well!! Let us know how it goes!! :)

[gjohnson5]

Cant run anymore.
Flat feet cause shin splints and knee pain...

[runner05]

Best of luck Saturday Lori! I'm sure you'll do well!! Let us know how it goes!! :)

I will do that! Thanks for the luck! I'm gonna need it! :)

[bhaputi]

Cant run anymore.
Flat feet cause shin splints and knee pain...

The correct shoes will fix that. I know of plenty of marathon runners with very flat feet.

[wubby]

Cant run anymore.
Flat feet cause shin splints and knee pain...

Can't or don't want to? That's like an excuse not a real reason.

Want help getting past the problem? Just ask.

[gjohnson5]

Thanks for getting on me and a bit of motivation as well
Shoes are not going to fix or even help my problem, I need custom support arches for me feet...

I'll get on it



The correct shoes will fix that. I know of plenty of marathon runners with very flat feet.


Can't or don't want to? That's like an excuse not a real reason.

Want help getting past the problem? Just ask.

[runner05]

OK... my first half marathon is on Saturday... Since you all are so great... I'm looking for inspiration and/or suggestions! Help?? Thanks!!!

[5krunner]

OK... my first half marathon is on Saturday... Since you all are so great... I'm looking for inspiration and/or suggestions! Help?? Thanks!!!

You'll have a great run on Saturday Lori...I'm sure of it! Threre's no doubt you're ready for it, think of all of the training/prep you've done! Relax and enjoy the experience! Let us know how it goes! Stay positive and good luck!! :)

[wubby]

OK... my first half marathon is on Saturday... Since you all are so great... I'm looking for inspiration and/or suggestions! Help?? Thanks!!!

I love the half. Just remember not to start too fast, but once you hit mile 10 it is all about reaching deep and finding the guts to push through.

[runner05]

You'll have a great run on Saturday Lori...I'm sure of it! Threre's no doubt you're ready for it, think of all of the training/prep you've done! Relax and enjoy the experience! Let us know how it goes! Stay positive and good luck!! :)

I hope I'm ready! Thanks for being YOU, 5k!

[runner05]

I love the half. Just remember not to start too fast, but once you hit mile 10 it is all about reaching deep and finding the guts to push through.

Love the half? :/ One of biggest problems is starting fast, but I've been making a very conscious effort to go slow in the beginning and keep it at or over my regular 10min mile... So, hopefully that will work! Thx for the pump up!!!

[bhaputi]

Love the half? :/ One of biggest problems is starting fast, but I've been making a very conscious effort to go slow in the beginning and keep it at or over my regular 10min mile... So, hopefully that will work! Thx for the pump up!!!

Remember - negative splits are more fun - passing people at the end rocks :)

[wubby]

Love the half? :/ One of biggest problems is starting fast, but I've been making a very conscious effort to go slow in the beginning and keep it at or over my regular 10min mile... So, hopefully that will work! Thx for the pump up!!!

No matter how hard I try to reign it in I go out too fast the first mile. Especially when that guy that I refuse to let beat me is ahead of me - even when I know I will catch him later in the race. Usually I manage to drop back into a zone for the next 5 miles and then pick it up. The last half I ran I feel like I had near perfect splits (for me):

0:06:07
0:06:25
0:06:27
0:06:26
0:06:29
0:06:29
0:06:07
0:06:07
0:06:10
0:06:02
0:06:02
0:06:01
0:05:40
0:00:35

OK, yes I am a data junky and I keep every split for every race I run ...

Good luck tomorrow! I am looking forward to a hard brick workout this w/e. I used to think they called it a brick because it was the building block of a good tri ... after my last one I decided it stood for Bike Run ICK!

[uncbob]

Ran track in HS and freshman in college

Gave it up to concentrate on BB --was a 6ft 129 stick in HS

Got to a very athletic looking 175 by SR in college

On graduating lost interest got a car smoked etc etc lost a lot of muscle
Then in 70 (age 34)quit smoking and put on 25 pounds of lard in 3 months

Got disgusted and took up running and got the fat off
Did marathons half marathons 10ks etc etc

Loved it

In 1985 (age 49)I started in with the weights again and also added biking

Now at 71 I am just beating off father time and trying to hang on to the muscle I have left

MY REGRET--If I had to do it over I would have gone back into BB as soon as I quit smoking --got back up to my previous college level (yes muscle does have a memory ) and THEN started the running --Being more muscled my times would have suffered but looking in the mirror would have more than compensated

I still run 3 times a week but not as far (6-6-10 Vs 10-10-15/20)

Here is a pic from 1985--age 49

Best half marathon was 1:27:10 at age 46 and 1:29:10 at age 50

[runner05]

No matter how hard I try to reign it in I go out too fast the first mile. Especially when that guy that I refuse to let beat me is ahead of me - even when I know I will catch him later in the race. Usually I manage to drop back into a zone for the next 5 miles and then pick it up. The last half I ran I feel like I had near perfect splits (for me):

0:06:07
0:06:25
0:06:27
0:06:26
0:06:29
0:06:29
0:06:07
0:06:07
0:06:10
0:06:02
0:06:02
0:06:01
0:05:40
0:00:35

OK, yes I am a data junky and I keep every split for every race I run ...

Good luck tomorrow! I am looking forward to a hard brick workout this w/e. I used to think they called it a brick because it was the building block of a good tri ... after my last one I decided it stood for Bike Run ICK!

:) Darn peer pressure! Thx for the good wishes!!!

[bhaputi]

Well, hit a decent goal today of sustaining sub-7 pace for 2 miles :)
I am really trying to get my 1.5 mile time down to below 9:44, so I need to do sub 6:30 for those 1.5 miles. Today I did 2 miles with average pace of 6:48 so I am getting there. I am hoping adrenaline on the day of the test will get me all the way there....

I have to admit, I am a bit sore :) But I blame that more on the cooldown. I am running with a partner, and he and I sometimes get a bit competitive. We started our cooldown, aiming for about 8:30 or 9 minute pace. We started about 8, then kind of started "racing" each other and wound up doing the mile of cooldown in 7:15. Idiots.... :p

So we walked for our cooldown after that :D

[Bando]

Ran track in HS and freshman in college

Gave it up to concentrate on BB --was a 6ft 129 stick in HS

Got to a very athletic looking 175 by SR in college

On graduating lost interest got a car smoked etc etc lost a lot of muscle
Then in 70 (age 34)quit smoking and put on 25 pounds of lard in 3 months

Got disgusted and took up running and got the fat off
Did marathons half marathons 10ks etc etc

Loved it

In 1985 (age 49)I started in with the weights again and also added biking

Now at 71 I am just beating off father time and trying to hang on to the muscle I have left

MY REGRET--If I had to do it over I would have gone back into BB as soon as I quit smoking --got back up to my previous college level (yes muscle does have a memory ) and THEN started the running --Being more muscled my times would have suffered but looking in the mirror would have more than compensated

I still run 3 times a week but not as far (6-6-10 Vs 10-10-15/20)

Here is a pic from 1985--age 49

Best half marathon was 1:27:10 at age 46 and 1:29:10 at age 50

Welcome. We'll help you in that battle with father time, I'm intrigued that a 71 year old would visit this forum/thread.

[wubby]

Well, hit a decent goal today of sustaining sub-7 pace for 2 miles :)
I am really trying to get my 1.5 mile time down to below 9:44, so I need to do sub 6:30 for those 1.5 miles. Today I did 2 miles with average pace of 6:48 so I am getting there. I am hoping adrenaline on the day of the test will get me all the way there....

I have to admit, I am a bit sore :) But I blame that more on the cooldown. I am running with a partner, and he and I sometimes get a bit competitive. We started our cooldown, aiming for about 8:30 or 9 minute pace. We started about 8, then kind of started "racing" each other and wound up doing the mile of cooldown in 7:15. Idiots.... :p

So we walked for our cooldown after that :D

Good Job!

I used to have a training partner and we were too competative too. He was also a little faster than me which was great for speed workouts to push me. It also meant I never had easy enough recovery times/days so I ended up overtraining. I had to learn not to run with him every day.

[bhaputi]

Good Job!

I used to have a training partner and we were too competative too. He was also a little faster than me which was great for speed workouts to push me. It also meant I never had easy enough recovery times/days so I ended up overtraining. I had to learn not to run with him every day.

Thanks. Thankfully he and I only run twice a week together, but I ride the fine line of overtraining alone, too. I am forcing myself to take 2 days in a row off from running I think, and will only hit the gym today. I sometimes forget the necessity of easy days :)

[runner05]

I came in w/ my time at 2:14:32 - a 10:17 mile average pace! I was hoping for somewhere between 2:10 and no more than 2:30, so I am very happy and not even too sore today!

[Bando]

I came in w/ my time at 2:14:32 - a 10:17 mile average pace! I was hoping for somewhere between 2:10 and no more than 2:30, so I am very happy and not even too sore today!

nicely done - great job!

[uncbob]

Welcome. We'll help you in that battle with father time, I'm intrigued that a 71 year old would visit this forum/thread.Well I am over 35 (:-)

[Skidmarx]

I feel bad I haven't ran in 12 days. Damn head cold/flu really screwed me up. Prolly' be another few days until I cough all this flem out and can run again.

hey you weren't just fixing to eat dinner, were you? :D

[Bando]

Well I am over 35 (:-)

we all are, most of us haven't doubled it yet though!

[wubby]

I came in w/ my time at 2:14:32 - a 10:17 mile average pace! I was hoping for somewhere between 2:10 and no more than 2:30, so I am very happy and not even too sore today!

Congratulations!

Not even sore? That means you had a 2:10 in you ;)

j/k great race...

[uncbob]

we all are, most of us haven't doubled it yet though!
Well there ain't no threads for doubles so here I be

[bhaputi]

I came in w/ my time at 2:14:32 - a 10:17 mile average pace! I was hoping for somewhere between 2:10 and no more than 2:30, so I am very happy and not even too sore today!

Nice! Congrats!

[vmpolesov]

Do any of you serious competitive runners also get into bodybuilder-type diet manipulation (bulking, cutting, etc)? I ask because running is one area where putting on weight is going to slow you down. But I can also see the advantages of having more muscle.

This is a general debate that has occurred in a lot of sports, is extra weight from muscle detrimental or helpful to your sport. For example the Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps has gotten into serious weight training (compared to his training up to the 2004 Olympics).

[bhaputi]

Do any of you serious competitive runners also get into bodybuilder-type diet manipulation (bulking, cutting, etc)? I ask because running is one area where putting on weight is going to slow you down. But I can also see the advantages of having more muscle.

This is a general debate that has occurred in a lot of sports, is extra weight from muscle detrimental or helpful to your sport. For example the Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps has gotten into serious weight training (compared to his training up to the 2004 Olympics).

I am not particularly serious, but I am competitive :)

I do not do any sort of bulking/cutting. Adding muscle can help or hinder, depending on a few factors, mainly the distance of your target race.

Example: If your target race is short (100M to 5K or so) then adding upper body bulk may actually help you, as a large component of shorter races is the arm swing. If your target race is a marathon, usually adding any bulk will hurt your times.
That said, though, if you are already skin and bones I think adding some muscle would help in either situation.


For me personally, I am aiming to add some upper body bulk, but my legs will likely stay around where they are.

[runner05]

nicely done - great job!

Thanks!! :)


Congratulations!

Not even sore? That means you had a 2:10 in you ;)

j/k great race...

Maybe and probably better!? But, I had not run more than 10 before this, so I'm definitely happy w/ the results and just having finished on my own two feet!! :)


Nice! Congrats!

Thanks!! :)

Onto the next one!

[wubby]

Do any of you serious competitive runners also get into bodybuilder-type diet manipulation (bulking, cutting, etc)? I ask because running is one area where putting on weight is going to slow you down. But I can also see the advantages of having more muscle.

This is a general debate that has occurred in a lot of sports, is extra weight from muscle detrimental or helpful to your sport. For example the Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps has gotten into serious weight training (compared to his training up to the 2004 Olympics).

I am competative, but far from serious. I have always lifted weights for running specific preventive maintenance and upper body strength with minimal mass.

I added a fair amount of muscle before my last marathon and PR'ed by 10 minutes. During the race on those final hills I felt like a little more muscle would help so I decided to add some mass as an experiment. The problem was I started to really like the results I was seeing for muscles that obviously were not going to help my marathons.

I have since gotten to the point where the added muscle will affect my marathon time, but I am ok with that. I had been thinking about going back to shorter races for a while anyway just for a change. I have also decided to chase my other long term triathlon goals.

I sort of do a bulk/cut cycle in that I add mass in the winter and then cut in the spring to get ready for summer. I never really bulk up much because I can't stand much fat on my body (see lengthy recent thread about how I feel fat ...). Starting yesterday I am cutting again so that I can get to goal BF% before my first tri in June.

[Ophus]

I came in w/ my time at 2:14:32 - a 10:17 mile average pace! I was hoping for somewhere between 2:10 and no more than 2:30, so I am very happy and not even too sore today!

Nice job!

Thanks you for your kind words on my 5k. I don't think I could last a half, 8 miles is about my longest so far.

[runner05]

Nice job!

Thanks you for your kind words on my 5k. I don't think I could last a half, 8 miles is about my longest so far.

Never say never!!! Last year I would've never thought I'd ever run a half!! Now, I'm thinking I should do another in the fall!

They are SO much fun... you really should try it! Especially a BIG run! This run had over 13,000 participants in the 5k, half, and full together. There were people lined up, playing music, and shouting their support for the entire full 13 miles... Such a head rush - definitely kept me from thinking about my legs! :) An awesome run to be sure!

[5krunner]

Never say never!!! Last year I would've never thought I'd ever run a half!! Now, I'm thinking I should do another in the fall!

They are SO much fun... you really should try it! Especially a BIG run! This run had over 13,000 participants in the 5k, half, and full together. There were people lined up, playing music, and shouting their support for the entire full 13 miles... Such a head rush - definitely kept me from thinking about my legs! :) An awesome run to be sure!

Awesome job there runner05!!! You should be very proud of your accomplishments!! I love how you just finish an event and already have your sights set on another! Very inspiring to say the least!

[runner05]

Awesome job there runner05!!! You should be very proud of your accomplishments!! I love how you just finish an event and already have your sights set on another! Very inspiring to say the least!

Gotta' keep runnin'! :) ('cuz I love it)

[bhaputi]

Gotta' keep runnin'! :) ('cuz I love it)

Exactly. For me, I have to have a target race or some other related goal otherwise I become lazy :)

Sub 20 5K, here I come! :D

[bhaputi]

Well, last night was speed work and I strained my left quad. :( This thoroughly sucks. It is the worst timing possible, as I have a physical test coming up on the 13th of June. Anyone have any experience with a strained quad?

[dbx]

My fellow (and much more accomplished) runners:

I need your advice. I've currently got two issues with my left foot/leg plaguing me and I'm not sure exactly what they are.

Issue #1- I had been unknowingly keeping my toes on my left foot "elevated" on each touchdown/step. The toe next to the big one...under the "ball joint" area...feels like it's inflamed. I did stub my foot right there badly a couple of months ago (all I can think of). The problem is this; I can overcome the discomfort and run just fine, but it's been bothering me while just walking for a month now. Almost like a planters wart of something could be under there? Can't pinpoint anything :confused:

Issue #2- I guess it's plain old shin splints. The first year running (2+yrs ago) I experienced these a few times, usually right when I first started running, and I'd have to stop and call it a day. But I've been lucky not to have had them since then.....until now. Been bothering me for a few weeks now. Again, left leg...in an area primarily from 2"-4" up from the ankle on the front of the shin. I foolishly pushed myself past this discomfort also and now, it actually hurts a bit just to walk! :( I had promised myself I would run for a few days, but I did it anyway, yesterday. I'm actually limping a bit when I walk. My previous experience with splints was that they went away as soon as you stopped running. Do you think it's possible I've actually fractured my shin bone? I'm weird about living with pain. I'm the kind of person that a doc might say, "Oh, I see you had a broken finger many years ago", and I'd look at him with the classic - :confused: But I suspect this is just a bad case of shin splints...and that I just have to avoid running for a while...and maybe even doing much walking on it???

Sorry for the length. What do you guys think? It's pissing me off because it's my main source for cardio/fat burning, and I've really been in the groove this year. TIA

[bhaputi]

They could be related, maybe. Could you have maybe broken your left toe when you stubbed it and it healed funny? If so, you could be compensating somehow and throwing your gait off, causing the splints.

However, if you are feeling pain all the time in your shin a fracture is possible. I would seriously suggest going to the doc. Fractures can become breaks or compartment syndrome, which can be life-threatening :eek:

[dbx]

They could be related, maybe. Could you have maybe broken your left toe when you stubbed it and it healed funny? If so, you could be compensating somehow and throwing your gait off, causing the splints.

However, if you are feeling pain all the time in your shin a fracture is possible. I would seriously suggest going to the doc. Fractures can become breaks or compartment syndrome, which can be life-threatening :eek:

The "stubbing" incident was really a "split", right between the big toe and 2nd toe. I can feel slight soreness if I pull on the second toe down where it connects. Nothing painful though, but it was many weeks ago when I stubbed it.

When I get up from sitting, the shin splint deal is prevalent for a matter of seconds, but is OK after I keep walking. Man, I just hate seeing docs for anything, but I will if it doesn't go away soon. Maybe I should just see what happens if I truly don't run at all for a week?

[bhaputi]

The "stubbing" incident was really a "split", right between the big toe and 2nd toe. I can feel slight soreness if I pull on the second toe down where it connects. Nothing painful though, but it was many weeks ago when I stubbed it.

When I get up from sitting, the shin splint deal is prevalent for a matter of seconds, but is OK after I keep walking. Man, I just hate seeing docs for anything, but I will if it doesn't go away soon. Maybe I should just see what happens if I truly don't run at all for a week?

RICE. Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation.

I will get shin pain after speedwork sometimes and it will hurt how you have described it, but goes away within 2-3 days (even if I continue to run)

Of course I pretty much overtrain when running, so take my advice with a grain of salt.... :p

[dbx]

RICE. Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation.

I will get shin pain after speedwork sometimes and it will hurt how you have described it, but goes away within 2-3 days (even if I continue to run)

Of course I pretty much overtrain when running, so take my advice with a grain of salt.... :p

I put a ice pack on it yesterday for the first time. It felt better immediately after, but felt the same shortly after that. Yeah, I think I'll just commit to avoiding running for a week and see what happens. I have run more this year (but slower pace) than ever. 20-30mins after each 4 day w/o, and 50mins on Friday...and sometimes another 30-50 on Sun. I guess I'll actually have to watch diet closer now that I can't count on "evening it up" with cardio :D

Thanks for the advice/comments!

[runner05]

I put a ice pack on it yesterday for the first time. It felt better immediately after, but felt the same shortly after that. Yeah, I think I'll just commit to avoiding running for a week and see what happens. I have run more this year (but slower pace) than ever. 20-30mins after each 4 day w/o, and 50mins on Friday...and sometimes another 30-50 on Sun. I guess I'll actually have to watch diet closer now that I can't count on "evening it up" with cardio :D

Thanks for the advice/comments!

A week off might do wonders for you... It's tough, but it did wonders for my knee when I injured it. A trip to your Dr probably wouldn't hurt either. And - I assume you're stretching? Good running shoes???

[wubby]

My fellow (and much more accomplished) runners:

I need your advice. I've currently got two issues with my left foot/leg plaguing me and I'm not sure exactly what they are.

Issue #1- I had been unknowingly keeping my toes on my left foot "elevated" on each touchdown/step. The toe next to the big one...under the "ball joint" area...feels like it's inflamed. I did stub my foot right there badly a couple of months ago (all I can think of). The problem is this; I can overcome the discomfort and run just fine, but it's been bothering me while just walking for a month now. Almost like a planters wart of something could be under there? Can't pinpoint anything :confused:

Issue #2- I guess it's plain old shin splints. The first year running (2+yrs ago) I experienced these a few times, usually right when I first started running, and I'd have to stop and call it a day. But I've been lucky not to have had them since then.....until now. Been bothering me for a few weeks now. Again, left leg...in an area primarily from 2"-4" up from the ankle on the front of the shin. I foolishly pushed myself past this discomfort also and now, it actually hurts a bit just to walk! :( I had promised myself I would run for a few days, but I did it anyway, yesterday. I'm actually limping a bit when I walk. My previous experience with splints was that they went away as soon as you stopped running. Do you think it's possible I've actually fractured my shin bone? I'm weird about living with pain. I'm the kind of person that a doc might say, "Oh, I see you had a broken finger many years ago", and I'd look at him with the classic - :confused: But I suspect this is just a bad case of shin splints...and that I just have to avoid running for a while...and maybe even doing much walking on it???

Sorry for the length. What do you guys think? It's pissing me off because it's my main source for cardio/fat burning, and I've really been in the groove this year. TIA

I can't really help with the toe thing from that description. I have had a bruised bone head in my foot before similar to that ant it just took forever to heal.

Shinsplints are easier. If when you had them before they only hurt when you run then you were lucky ;) Mine used to feel like someone hitting me in the shins with a sledghammer (whole different story about why I know what that feels like :) ) The first step is to see if you are pronating excessively. If that is the case, then new shoes can help, as can improving your gait (the shoes are a quicker fix). It could just be from old worn out shoes too.

For me - I get shin splints every time I neglect to keep my shin muscles strong. Every time I do calf raises, I also do reverse calf raises where instead of being on the toes lowering the heels, I stand on my heels and lower my toes (or use the leg press in the same foot positions). This is the ONLY thing that has worked 100% reliably for me. If I slack off on these then w/in a month I have shin splints, then after starting to do them again the shin splints are gone in a couple weeks.

[dbx]

A week off might do wonders for you... It's tough, but it did wonders for my knee when I injured it. A trip to your Dr probably wouldn't hurt either. And - I assume you're stretching? Good running shoes???

Just finished today's workout. Yes, I stretch before every run, and stretch afterwards too. Granted, not long, but... And yes, I've been using Aasics the past few years, and I had recently bought the Nimbus 9 Aasics, which are almost perfectly tailored for my feet. Most money I ever spent on any shoes :eek:

[dbx]

The first step is to see if you are pronating excessively. If that is the case, then new shoes can help, as can improving your gait (the shoes are a quicker fix). It could just be from old worn out shoes too.

I don't run overly pronated and i'm aware of that being a possible issue. The Nimbus shoes are supposedly good for over-pronated to slightly the opposite. I had also switched back to my older Aasics (still new condition) to see if I could feel a difference. Oddly, they felt more cushioned, but they don't fit as well as the new ones. Anyway, I don't think it's the shoes. I'm starting to think I just didn't rest or listen to my body when it was starting to hurt, and that I just further aggravated it. I'm good about things like this :o

[wubby]

I don't run overly pronated and i'm aware of that being a possible issue. The Nimbus shoes are supposedly good for over-pronated to slightly the opposite. I had also switched back to my older Aasics (still new condition) to see if I could feel a difference. Oddly, they felt more cushioned, but they don't fit as well as the new ones. Anyway, I don't think it's the shoes. I'm starting to think I just didn't rest or listen to my body when it was starting to hurt, and that I just further aggravated it. I'm good about things like this :o

Rest? BAH! (ok, couple days off, then get back to it)

Whenever I have any injury (except short term trauma), if I just rest until it gets better and then start running again, I just injure it again. I have always found that I have to train through the pain, find the cause of the problem, and fix that instead of trying to just avoid the pain. Every overuse problem has been a result of one part of the system being behind the rest of the body in development. When I take time off to heal a pain I end up just bringing everything else down to the level of the offending part. If instead I just back off a little and fix the problem causing the pain, I am able to move beyond it and improve. The problems invariably end up either being a weak or tight muscle, or bad form.

[bhaputi]

So...all this injury talk and no one has anything to say about my pulled quad? *sniff*

:)

[wubby]

So...all this injury talk and no one has anything to say about my pulled quad? *sniff*

:)

Ummmmmm ... all I can say about that is "It sucks to be you"

Sorry man, an actual pulled muscle is a whole different story. Take time to heal, swim to keep as much fitness as you can, and then hit things to release the anger that it happened (preferably a heavy bag).

Of course that on top of the standard ice, then heat, and massages.

Edited to add: Spend some time in a hot tub ... add lovely ladies to massage the quad and you will be good to go.

[bhaputi]

Ummmmmm ... all I can say about that is "It sucks to be you"

Sorry man, an actual pulled muscle is a whole different story. Take time to heal, swim to keep as much fitness as you can, and then hit things to release the anger that it happened (preferably a heavy bag).

Of course that on top of the standard ice, then heat, and massages.

I will let you know how that goes - after the 13th of June :)
I have no choice but to get running ASAP, as I have a physical test for a career change on the 13th. Perfect freaking timing, eh?
It is not a serious pull/strain, no discoloration, no bruising/swelling, and it is already feeling better from last night, so I think I will just take today completely off and do some easy running tomorrow morning (short, like 2-3 miles) to see how it feels.

I am nervous,though, as I have heard quad problems can linger....

[dbx]

Rest? BAH! (ok, couple days off, then get back to it)

Probably should wait a day to update, but....I ran (TM) this morning for the first time in about 8 days. The deal with the ball of my foot feels better, but I'm still subconsciously trying to avoid pushing off my toes on that foot, so I concentrated on feeling the full "pivot", if you will. On the shin splint; still feeling some discomfort in the same place, and can feel it while just sitting typing. Nothing painful...just know it's there, you know? I'll see what tomorrow brings. Man, just one week off ... and it killed me to run 2mi/22mins :(

[bhaputi]

DBX,
Glad to hear you are at least slowly getting back there. Hope the shin splints clear up for you, they suck.

My quad was, apparently, a freak thing - I took 2 days off, got a support for it (compression-sleeve-thingy for the thigh) and got right back into it over the weekend (did 18 miles from Friday to Monday, including 1 day of tempo). No pain so far *crossing fingers*

Today is interval day, so I am a bit apprehensive....wish me luck :)

[wubby]

Today is interval day, so I am a bit apprehensive....wish me luck :)

Good luck!

I am walking funny today - Squats Monday, 15x1 min sprint intervals Tuesday before the DOMs set in, then 8 mile easy run this morning.

Lift and bike workout tomorrow then 3 days off for a long w/e in Vegas whoo hoooo.

[wubby]

Probably should wait a day to update, but....I ran (TM) this morning for the first time in about 8 days. The deal with the ball of my foot feels better, but I'm still subconsciously trying to avoid pushing off my toes on that foot, so I concentrated on feeling the full "pivot", if you will. On the shin splint; still feeling some discomfort in the same place, and can feel it while just sitting typing. Nothing painful...just know it's there, you know? I'll see what tomorrow brings. Man, just one week off ... and it killed me to run 2mi/22mins :(

Glad it is getting better - good luck.

[bhaputi]

Good luck!

I am walking funny today - Squats Monday, 15x1 min sprint intervals Tuesday before the DOMs set in, then 8 mile easy run this morning.

Lift and bike workout tomorrow then 3 days off for a long w/e in Vegas whoo hoooo.

Gotta love it. I think I narrowed down what caused my quad pull to being squats. That was the only thing I did differently last week - squats on Sunday, then intervals on Tuesday. Pulled squats out of the rotation until I get done with my test, then I am revamping the schedule anyways.

Have fun in Vegas.

[dbx]

DBX,
Glad to hear you are at least slowly getting back there. Hope the shin splints clear up for you, they suck.

My quad was, apparently, a freak thing - I took 2 days off, got a support for it (compression-sleeve-thingy for the thigh) and got right back into it over the weekend (did 18 miles from Friday to Monday, including 1 day of tempo). No pain so far *crossing fingers*

Today is interval day, so I am a bit apprehensive....wish me luck :)

I was kinda worried because I've been running for over 2yrs now, and I've been lucky enough to only have experienced shin splints a couple of times during the 1st couple of months...and they went away after resting a day or two. It's been a week, and this still isn't normal. We'll see.

Good luck on your interval training! Sounds like you've overcome whatever it was.


Glad it is getting better - good luck.

Thanks :)

[Braindrop]

Well, last night was speed work and I strained my left quad. :( This thoroughly sucks. It is the worst timing possible, as I have a physical test coming up on the 13th of June. Anyone have any experience with a strained quad?

Yesterday was interval sprints, and I strained my left quad. Sound familiar? :(

I used a therapy ball (kind of a fancy tennis-ball-thingy) and rolled the quad out really well last night, worked on it for about 15 minutes this morning with a massage genie (one of those big-ass 2-hand massage bricks), did a half hour of yoga, and took ibruprofen.

I just slowly jogged a couple of miles on it this afternoon. I knew it was there, but it wasn't impacting my running. If I'd tried to crank the speed up anymore, it probably would have.

[xjguy]

Cool thread!

I just got back from a 5 mile run outside. Not sure about the runners high but I always feel very relaxed after I run. I was a treadmill slogger till I started outside....now I am not sure I can go back to the treadmill!

I always hated cardio and only got any cause I was a gym rat B-Ball junkie played hour after hour back in the day. However after a couple knee surgery's including a complete ACL repair I had to find a different cardio fix. I remember my first run on the treadmill after not doing ANY cardio for about a year. I ran a total of 1.5 minutes before I was dying. My feet/ankles were killing me and I was out of breath. Seems I could not run in the "cross trainer" shoes I had. After getting some good shoes I have built up to 5 miles consistently and an occasional 7 mile run. Now that I have swithced to outside running I have dropped the distance a bit but enjoy is SO much more.

My advice is to make sure you get some good shoes and stick with it. I am defiantly not built for running (6'2" 220) but I find I love it!

[bhaputi]

Well, intervals went pretty well - I had to cut one of them short when I started to feel my quad "pulling"

Doing a nice easy run tonight, then taking a day off from everything on Friday. Looking forward to a full day of rest :)

[dbx]

Well, intervals went pretty well - I had to cut one of them short when I started to feel my quad "pulling"

Doing a nice easy run tonight, then taking a day off from everything on Friday. Looking forward to a full day of rest :)

Glad to hear your quad held up.

[Braindrop]

Today was back/quads day, and I hit it pretty hard with no problems. I'd really stretched it out well first with yoga, I'm sure that helped. I decided against intervals today -- I'll add them back in starting Sunday if it doesn't bother me during tomorrow's run.

brain

[dbx]

Quick update:

As mentioned, I ran 2 miles on Wed. The left shin still didn't feel 100%. I went ahead and pushed it and ran 4.25 miles yesterday and it felt decent. And today, out of boredom as much as wanting to burn cals, I ran 3.5 miles.

Observation: I'd commented to my son a long time ago that this "fat burning" slower pace I've been doing was harder on my joints. I ran yesterday and today at a slightly faster pace than I have been this year, and I truly think this has something to do with it. Faster speed and longer strides seems to be much more friendly to my joints. Anyway, I think I'll be OK :)

[uncbob]

Strange--about these quad problems--most runners have the hamstrings go

[Bando]

Just came in from a run, 1'st half mile or so I had my 7 year old boy with me. He was panting and puffing and I was trying to teach him deep slow breaths. Proud my kid came along.

[Skidmarx]

My kid lost interest in running. She'd rathing go bicycling....whatever gets her moving and away from the tv is good enough.


Hot and muggy morning run here in FL this morning. Probably 90 degrees by 9 a.m. :(

There's the development a couple blocks away that got caught in the housing downturn, and never got past the road/sidewalk phase, no houses. It's cool cuz' there's a lot of ovals and winding roads with no cars or anything. My own little personal track. :)

I love summer. Even though I sweated my nads off this morning it was great to come home, chug a PW shake and jump in the pool. :)

[dbx]

Just came in from a run, 1'st half mile or so I had my 7 year old boy with me.


My kid lost interest in running.

Heck, my two sons are the ones who coaxed me into running. Just finished 3.5 miles :). Man, if it wasn't for running, I wouldn't be doing so well relying just on diet.

[Bando]

Gotta brag on my wife here. I've been working out hard for just under 2 years and she started running, before I got up, without my knowledge a few months ago. Now she runs every other day at 5:30 am - a woman who has never played sports or been into exercise.

I personally think it's because a woman at work coached me in my first 5K and I just coached another one to run a 5k with me. You can lead by example, you can bug, pester, cajole or tease (none of which I ever did, except set an example) but a tiny little jealousy bug can work fitness miracles.

I'm running a 5K in August and I suspect my wife is dead set on beating the woman I coached. Part of me wants to tell her, but neither are very fast so I think I'll keep out, my work is done. I'm proud that I'm responsible for them both being in the race, I think I'll run back and cheer my wife on though.

[wubby]

I personally think it's because a woman at work coached me in my first 5K and I just coached another one to run a 5k with me. You can lead by example, you can bug, pester, cajole or tease (none of which I ever did, except set an example) but a tiny little jealousy bug can work fitness miracles.


This is very similar to what got my wife running. I was coaching a woman at work too. Sometimes a little competition really helps motivate us. It was never my intention in the beginning - but it worked out well in the end.

Sometimes it is amazing when we look back at pivotal points in our lives. That one thing that could have set off a bad chain of events in some marriages actually took us down a path of rejuvenation. We are fitter, healthier, more open, and far happier.

[Skidmarx]

Damn it's been hot here in FL. I lost 2 lbs in sweat on my 5k run this morning.

[Braindrop]

Since I'm in Cali alone, and the weather gods decided to bless us with 93-degree weather (still cooler than in Texas), I decided to make sure I could back up the smack I've been talking about my as-yet-unproven-ability to run a 5K in the heat.

5K 38:16, nonstop. That's the longest continuous run I've done since high school.

Rawr.

[5krunner]

Since I'm in Cali alone, and the weather gods decided to bless us with 93-degree weather (still cooler than in Texas), I decided to make sure I could back up the smack I've been talking about my as-yet-unproven-ability to run a 5K in the heat.

5K 38:16, nonstop. That's the longest continuous run I've done since high school.

Rawr.

Nice work Braindrop! You must have worked up a good sweat in that kind of heat! :)

[bhaputi]

This heat is just all around nasty for running outside. Last night I waited until 9 PM to go, but it was still mid-80's and very humid. Supposed to storm today and break the heat - thank goodness.

[wubby]

This heat is just all around nasty for running outside. Last night I waited until 9 PM to go, but it was still mid-80's and very humid. Supposed to storm today and break the heat - thank goodness.

That's why I run early in the morning. Not that it gets that hot here anyway, but it was 55 degrees this AM and it will be close to 80 later. 55 degrees is my ideal temp for running - perfect temp to wear nothing but shorts and shoes.

[bhaputi]

That's why I run early in the morning. Not that it gets that hot here anyway, but it was 55 degrees this AM and it will be close to 80 later. 55 degrees is my ideal temp for running - perfect temp to wear nothing but shorts and shoes.

I love running in the 50s. I do not really mind heat when running, but right now I am prepping for a physical test which will not be served well by heat :(

[chrisbute]

I'm kicking myself for not running in a local 5K race this past weekend. My friend found this obscure race near Charlotte and he signed up for it. I declined, but he called me up later and said he finished 3rd in his age group and got a trophy and a backpack. He told me I would have taken third in my age group as well since there were only 2 runners in my age group that did the race. My non-running wife would have won her age group since there was nobody in her group that raced. Total of 60 runners. Oh well!!

[Braindrop]

Thanks all. This morning, the bottom of the outside arch of my right foot feels like someone took a hammer to it. :(

[Skidmarx]

That's why I run early in the morning.

+1. Also not a lot of cars on the road so not so much exhaust fumes to choke on.

[gjohnson5]

If you want to burn fat , you might wanna pick up another method of cardio.
Running isn't a very effective method for burning fat at any pace...



Quick update:

As mentioned, I ran 2 miles on Wed. The left shin still didn't feel 100%. I went ahead and pushed it and ran 4.25 miles yesterday and it felt decent. And today, out of boredom as much as wanting to burn cals, I ran 3.5 miles.

Observation: I'd commented to my son a long time ago that this "fat burning" slower pace I've been doing was harder on my joints. I ran yesterday and today at a slightly faster pace than I have been this year, and I truly think this has something to do with it. Faster speed and longer strides seems to be much more friendly to my joints. Anyway, I think I'll be OK :)

[bhaputi]

If you want to burn fat , you might wanna pick up another method of cardio.
Running isn't a very effective method for burning fat at any pace...

You have backup of that "fact"?

[bhaputi]

Had the pleasure of running at the track tonight in a rather intense thunderstorm. When we got there it was cloudy and extremely hot/humid. After a quick .5 mile warmup, the storm blew in very quickly, forcing us under the bleachers for 10-15 minutes. Once that passed, the humidity was still on full force but now the ground was wet and the sun came out. Brutal, but we got it done :)

[gjohnson5]

It is what it is
I would run when I want to get better at running.......

A precour machine or other elliptical is much easier on the joints and the low impact makes it easier to do for longer periods of time. Not to mention they can be inclined , declined , increase resistance on the pedals and have programs in which mimmic HIIT or steady state. This is aside from the fact that you can use them in the air conditioning....

Anything else?


You have backup of that "fact"?

[bhaputi]

It is what it is
I would run when I want to get better at running.......

A precour machine or other elliptical is much easier on the joints and the low impact makes it easier to do for longer periods of time. Not to mention they can be inclined , declined , increase resistance on the pedals and have programs in which mimmic HIIT or steady state. This is aside from the fact that you can use them in the air conditioning....

Anything else?

Sure. Please explain your original statement that there are better ways to burn fat. All you said here was that you prefer the elliptical, which is a preference thing, not a factual thing.

[gjohnson5]

I didn't use the word(s) prefer or preference in anything that I said.


Sure. Please explain your original statement that there are better ways to burn fat. All you said here was that you prefer the elliptical, which is a preference thing, not a factual thing.

[gjohnson5]

Anyway if you were waiting to hear something that sounded like a scientific fact well here goes.
These guys do a good job of explaining it

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1998/09sep/hawley.htm

The relative contributions of fat and carbohydrate to energy vary with exercise intensity. Low-intensity activities such as walking strongly stimulate lipolysis from peripheral adipocytes, while intramuscular triglycerides contribute little or nothing to total energy expenditure (1). The rate of carbohydrate use is also low: carbohydrate needs are met predominantly by circulating blood glucose, with little or no muscle glycogen breakdown (figure 1: not shown). The rate of appearance of fatty acids into the plasma peaks during low-intensity exercise (25% to 30% of VO2 max) and then declines as exercise intensity increases.

In contrast, the rate of fat oxidation is highest during moderate activity such as easy jogging (65% of VO2 max). At such an intensity, plasma free fatty acids and intramuscular triglyceride contribute equally to the overall rate of fat oxidation. During high-intensity exercise (85% of VO2 max), the rate of total fat oxidation falls, mainly because the appearance of fatty acids into the plasma is suppressed. At the same time, lipolysis of intramuscular triglycerides does not rise substantially when exercise intensity increases from 65% to 85% of VO2 max. This would not affect recreational athletes because most cannot sustain high-intensity exercise for more than 10 to 15 minutes without accumulating high (greater than 10 mM) concentrations of lactic acid in the working muscles and blood, which would cause discomfort and stop activity.

When low-intensity exercise continues more than 90 minutes, the pattern of substrate metabolism changes little relative to the first 20 to 30 minutes of exercise. The same is true of moderate-intensity exercise (65% of VO2 max): the rate of total fat or carbohydrate oxidation changes little after 2 hours of jogging or cycling at this intensity compared with the first 30 minutes. However, this level of exercise induces a progressive increase in the mobilization of fatty acids from peripheral adipocytes into the plasma (1). Therefore, the contribution of intramuscular substrates (triglyceride and glycogen) to total energy expenditure probably decreases when the duration of moderate-intensity exercise increases beyond 90 minutes.


So having said this when one does low to medium intensity cardio as they pointed out "an easy jog" that is less then 65% VO2MAX the body primary source of energy used is fatty acids more so then stored carbohydrates. This rate of fatty acid usage increase until the 90 minute mark. So if I wish to maximize fatty acid usage during cardiovascular exercise , then I might wanna do medium intensity (preferable interval-ing the low and medium) to the 90 minute mark. Running for almost anyone is simply too high intensity (as measured in VO2MAX or maximum oxygen consumption) to continue @ 65% VO2MAX to the 90 minute mark.

[Djanvk]

My wife is a runner and she has been trying to get me to run, I do lift, but don't run, I think this thread just motivated me, I'll try it today.

I used to run in the military, so I can do it.

Thanks all.

[Bando]

Wow only took 367 posts before someone backed me up with an article.


I run because it's the one thing that just eats fat off my waistline


Anyway if you were waiting to hear something that sounded like a scientific fact well here goes.
These guys do a good job of explaining it

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1998/09sep/hawley.htm

The relative contributions of fat and carbohydrate to energy vary with exercise intensity. Low-intensity activities such as walking strongly stimulate lipolysis from peripheral adipocytes, while intramuscular triglycerides contribute little or nothing to total energy expenditure (1). The rate of carbohydrate use is also low: carbohydrate needs are met predominantly by circulating blood glucose, with little or no muscle glycogen breakdown (figure 1: not shown). The rate of appearance of fatty acids into the plasma peaks during low-intensity exercise (25% to 30% of VO2 max) and then declines as exercise intensity increases.

In contrast, the rate of fat oxidation is highest during moderate activity such as easy jogging (65% of VO2 max). At such an intensity, plasma free fatty acids and intramuscular triglyceride contribute equally to the overall rate of fat oxidation. During high-intensity exercise (85% of VO2 max), the rate of total fat oxidation falls, mainly because the appearance of fatty acids into the plasma is suppressed. At the same time, lipolysis of intramuscular triglycerides does not rise substantially when exercise intensity increases from 65% to 85% of VO2 max. This would not affect recreational athletes because most cannot sustain high-intensity exercise for more than 10 to 15 minutes without accumulating high (greater than 10 mM) concentrations of lactic acid in the working muscles and blood, which would cause discomfort and stop activity.

When low-intensity exercise continues more than 90 minutes, the pattern of substrate metabolism changes little relative to the first 20 to 30 minutes of exercise. The same is true of moderate-intensity exercise (65% of VO2 max): the rate of total fat or carbohydrate oxidation changes little after 2 hours of jogging or cycling at this intensity compared with the first 30 minutes. However, this level of exercise induces a progressive increase in the mobilization of fatty acids from peripheral adipocytes into the plasma (1). Therefore, the contribution of intramuscular substrates (triglyceride and glycogen) to total energy expenditure probably decreases when the duration of moderate-intensity exercise increases beyond 90 minutes.


So having said this when one does low to medium intensity cardio as they pointed out "an easy jog" that is less then 65% VO2MAX the body primary source of energy used is fatty acids more so then stored carbohydrates. This rate of fatty acid usage increase until the 90 minute mark. So if I wish to maximize fatty acid usage during cardiovascular exercise , then I might wanna do medium intensity (preferable interval-ing the low and medium) to the 90 minute mark. Running for almost anyone is simply too high intensity (as measured in VO2MAX or maximum oxygen consumption) to continue @ 65% VO2MAX to the 90 minute mark.

[bhaputi]

I didn't use the word(s) prefer or preference in anything that I said.

Ok - re-read your post and tell me it was not saying that you prefer the elliptical to running, without a single true fact to back it up?

Also:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=165783691&postcount=290

Did you change your opinion since then? That post seemed to say you wanted to pick running back up. I am confused?

Are you perhaps calling running and jogging 2 different things?

[gjohnson5]

Face the fact , you mis-interpreted the post
Continuing this charade isn't helping....

1. The difference between running and jogging is pace...
2. You also need to understand what low-impact is since you completely missed that in my original post.


If you want to burn fat , you might wanna pick up another method of cardio.


It is what it is
I would run when I want to get better at running.......


Reread that and show where I said I ran to burn fat?



Ok - re-read your post and tell me it was not saying that you prefer the elliptical to running, without a single true fact to back it up?

Also:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=165783691&postcount=290

Did you change your opinion since then? That post seemed to say you wanted to pick running back up. I am confused?

Are you perhaps calling running and jogging 2 different things?

[bhaputi]

Face the fact , you mis-interpreted the post
Continuing this charade isn't helping....

1. The difference between running and jogging is pace...
2. You also need to understand what low-impact is since you completely missed that in my original post.



Reread the first post and show where I said I ran to burn fat?

Sure - maybe I dis mis-interpret, which was why I asked for further info. Why is this a charade? I was just asking for clarification on what you were saying.

As for the difference between running and jogging, I guess since I am actually more of a runner than a bb'er I define any running as running, never jogging (easy runs, hard runs, tempos, fartleks, etc.) but that is just a matter of semantics, so I would say you are correct there.

[gjohnson5]

LOLOLOLOL

No you go and "re-read" your post and tell me where you used the word(s) clarify or clarification...


Ok - re-read your post and tell me it was not saying that you prefer the elliptical to running, without a single true fact to back it up?

You "clearly" are not asking for a clarification in the above post, but you are asking me why I prefer elliptical over running. and I LOL "clearly" never said any such thing



Sure - maybe I dis mis-interpret, which was why I asked for further info. Why is this a charade? I was just asking for clarification on what you were saying.

As for the difference between running and jogging, I guess since I am actually more of a runner than a bb'er I define any running as running, never jogging (easy runs, hard runs, tempos, fartleks, etc.) but that is just a matter of semantics, so I would say you are correct there.

[wubby]

1. The difference between running and jogging is pace...


Yep, just like if you are taking it easy on the elliptical you are not burning much. You have to compare equal effort with equal effort.



2. You also need to understand what low-impact is since you completely missed that in my original post.


Using ellipticals to reduce impact is just an easy way to avoid running with proper form.

Improve your form and learn to increase your effort on your own and you will not be stuck on a machine.

[bhaputi]

LOLOLOLOL

No you go and "re-read" your post and tell me where you used the word(s) clarify or clarification...



You "clearly" are not asking for a clarification in the above post, but you are asking me why I prefer elliptical over running. and I LOL "clearly" never said any such thing

Why don't we just agree to disagree? I think we are not communicating with each other very well :)

[gjohnson5]

Guy I'm not dissin' runinng......

All I'm saying is that "the fat burning zone" is no myth. There is plety of science to back it up. 65% VO2MAX leaves alot of oxygen available to be used to "oxidize" fat. Also the body's use of fatty acids for energy accelerates during cardio at this intensity level until the 90 minute mark. If you can run and maintain 65% VO2MAX for 90 minutes, then by all means. You're in the top .5% of the population. The other 99.5% of you , this is simply too intense to be effective at "oxidizing" fat If you goal is to maxime fat "oxidation" choose cardio which you can maintain to the 90 minute mark at a little over 1/2 your intensity (as measured by your breathing capacity)

So if you wanted a "clarification"... There

[bhaputi]

Guy I'm not dissin' runinng......

All I'm saying is that "the fat burning zone" is no myth. There is plety of science to back it up. 65% VO2MAX leaves alot of oxygen available to be used to "oxidize" fat. Also the body's use of fatty acids for energy accelerates during cardio at this intensity level until the 90 minute mark. If you can run and maintain 65% VO2MAX for 90 minutes, then by all means. You're in the top .5% of the population. The other 99.5% of you , this is simply too intense to be effective at "oxidizing" fat If you goal is to maxime fat "oxidation" choose cardio which you can maintain to the 90 minute mark at a little over 1/2 your intensity (as measured by your breathing capacity)

So if you wanted a "clarification"... There

I agree - I think the misunderstanding was based on the whole jogging versus running thing. As I said, to me it is all running - just different paces. What you call jogging I call an easy run.

[gjohnson5]

Anyway , I got my orthotics yesterday
(YAY! or do I mean OUCH!!)

My feet are ruler flat, so I needed arch supports custom made for my feet to fix the over pronation. Not to mention I'm in a family full of diabetics , so I wouldn't be surprised that genetics (yes , you need certain genes to get diabetes) issues cause my arches to fall.

And to agree further with this , I'll need to triple check my form due to the orthopedic issues, but I wouldn't assume that if one is experiencing pain or discomfort while running that the person's form is bad

But it's time for me to start running again because I suck at it



Yep, just like if you are taking it easy on the elliptical you are not burning much. You have to compare equal effort with equal effort.



Using ellipticals to reduce impact is just an easy way to avoid running with proper form.

Improve your form and learn to increase your effort on your own and you will not be stuck on a machine.

[gjohnson5]

My first day back was painful as expected
Hopefully I'll get better adjusted to these things tonite

[Bando]

She complains about pain after running, no wonder. She is landing flat on her feet, like she is trying to see how loud she can stomp down. Her breathing is all over the place, panting, huffing and puffing and done without thought. I tried to help her but she said "if I do that I'm gonna fall." It hurts me to think of her running a 5K like that.

Other than that, it was a good date.

[Ophus]

Guy I'm not dissin' runinng......

All I'm saying is that "the fat burning zone" is no myth. There is plety of science to back it up. 65% VO2MAX leaves alot of oxygen available to be used to "oxidize" fat. Also the body's use of fatty acids for energy accelerates during cardio at this intensity level until the 90 minute mark. If you can run and maintain 65% VO2MAX for 90 minutes, then by all means. You're in the top .5% of the population. The other 99.5% of you , this is simply too intense to be effective at "oxidizing" fat If you goal is to maxime fat "oxidation" choose cardio which you can maintain to the 90 minute mark at a little over 1/2 your intensity (as measured by your breathing capacity)

So if you wanted a "clarification"... There

Hi,

I read your earlier posting too, this is pretty much an outdated theory. Recent studies have proven that trying to manipulate weather you burn carbs or fat is a waste of time, you need to be more concerned with calories burned and it needs to be at a high intensity.

The fat burning zone was a great theory and does work as stated, but there is one major flaw, no after burn. When you exercise at low to moderate intensity the calories burned, while exercising is all you get, when you stop the fat burning stops. Also after 60 minutes of exercise cortizol levels increase which blunts fat burning, I find it hard to believe that it increases out to 90 minutes. New studies show that after intense exercise you continue to burn fat for as much as 24 hours.

The moral is go out bust your butt, work hard, get your heart rate up and enjoy the after burn!

[gjohnson5]

This is true for no matter what intensity cardio you do
EPOc is a myth

You've been had, hood winked, led astray and run amuck...

The above statement paints an appealing picture. In reality however, the scientific evidence suggests that it is unequivocally false (Laforgia et al., 1997, Gore and Withers, 1990, Freedman-Akabas, 1985). First, HIIT training is normally purported to take less time than lower intensity sessions. However, to control variables Laforgia et al. (1997) examined the effect of intensity on EPOC, while matching total work performed in each session. Participants consisted of eight male middle distance runners, who performed 30 minutes of 70 % V02 max treadmill running in condition one, and interval training in condition two. Interval training consisted of 20, one minute sprints at 105 % of V02 max. The session lasted 60 minutes, as sprints were interspersed with 2 minute intervals in which participants performed active recovery. It was found that the 70 % V02 max condition metabolized 31 extra calories over the entire nine hours following exercise, while the high intensity condition metabolized 64 extra calories as extrapolated by EPOC. This equates to a negligible 33 extra calories for the high intensity condition. Laforgia et al. (1997) suggests that a comparison of the excess calories above moderate intensity exercise ‘for the interval treatment is of little physiological significance to the energy balance of athletes because this amount of energy is equivalent to the kilojoules in only 75 ml of orange juice (1/3rd cup).’ They further conclude that ‘the major contribution of both treatments to weight loss was via the energy expended during the actual exercise. The excess post exercise energy expenditure is therefore of negligible physiological significance as far as weight loss is concerned.’

Also...

In another study, Gore et al. (1990) examined the effect of both intensity and duration on EPOC. Participants consisted of nine males with an average of 21 years of age. Participants exercised at 30 %, 50 %, and 70 % V02 max, each at 20, 50, and 80 minute durations. The effect of duration on exercise found no significant difference in the 30 % V02 max condition, whose 8 hour EPOC was a little over 1 liter of 02, amounting to approximately 5-6 extra calories metabolized. The effect of duration on the 50 % V02 max condition found that EPOC went from approximately 3 liters at 20 minutes, to 5 liters at 50 minutes, and finally to 6 liters at 80 minutes of duration. The effect of duration on the 70% V02 max condition found that EPOC went from 6, to 10, and finally 14.6 liters of 02 consumed for 20, 50, and 80 minute durations. As a reference the 14.6 liters of 02 consumed in excess in the 70 % V02 max, 80 minute duration condition was approximately 70 extra calories of energy expended or approximately 40 extra calories than the 50 minute condition at 50 minutes duration. While the data from this study clearly shows a positive relationship between intensity and duration on EPOC, the amount of calories metabolized in excess is concluded by the authors to be ‘ of little physiological significance for weight loss…’ Further, the average amount of calories metabolized during EPOC was approximately 4 % of the total energy cost of exercise, which addresses the statement that , ‘the majority of calories burned will come after your workout( Phillips)!

EPOC burns an insignificant amount of calories post exercise...


Hi,

I read your earlier posting too, this is pretty much an outdated theory. Recent studies have proven that trying to manipulate weather you burn carbs or fat is a waste of time, you need to be more concerned with calories burned and it needs to be at a high intensity.

The fat burning zone was a great theory and does work as stated, but there is one major flaw, no after burn. When you exercise at low to moderate intensity the calories burned, while exercising is all you get, when you stop the fat burning stops.

The moral is go out bust your butt, work hard, get your heart rate up and enjoy the after burn!

[LyingSac]

Most couch potatoes our age think of 1.75 miles as watching a lap around a Nascar track and a reason for another beer/smoke/handful of chips.

Nice job lumbering that distance.

AMEN

[Ophus]

This is true for no matter what intensity cardio you do
EPOc is a myth

You've been had, hood winked, led astray and run amuck...

The above statement paints an appealing picture. In reality however, the scientific evidence suggests that it is unequivocally false (Laforgia et al., 1997, Gore and Withers, 1990, Freedman-Akabas, 1985). First, HIIT training is normally purported to take less time than lower intensity sessions. However, to control variables Laforgia et al. (1997) examined the effect of intensity on EPOC, while matching total work performed in each session. Participants consisted of eight male middle distance runners, who performed 30 minutes of 70 % V02 max treadmill running in condition one, and interval training in condition two. Interval training consisted of 20, one minute sprints at 105 % of V02 max. The session lasted 60 minutes, as sprints were interspersed with 2 minute intervals in which participants performed active recovery. It was found that the 70 % V02 max condition metabolized 31 extra calories over the entire nine hours following exercise, while the high intensity condition metabolized 64 extra calories as extrapolated by EPOC. This equates to a negligible 33 extra calories for the high intensity condition. Laforgia et al. (1997) suggests that a comparison of the excess calories above moderate intensity exercise ?for the interval treatment is of little physiological significance to the energy balance of athletes because this amount of energy is equivalent to the kilojoules in only 75 ml of orange juice (1/3rd cup).? They further conclude that ?the major contribution of both treatments to weight loss was via the energy expended during the actual exercise. The excess post exercise energy expenditure is therefore of negligible physiological significance as far as weight loss is concerned.?

Also...

In another study, Gore et al. (1990) examined the effect of both intensity and duration on EPOC. Participants consisted of nine males with an average of 21 years of age. Participants exercised at 30 %, 50 %, and 70 % V02 max, each at 20, 50, and 80 minute durations. The effect of duration on exercise found no significant difference in the 30 % V02 max condition, whose 8 hour EPOC was a little over 1 liter of 02, amounting to approximately 5-6 extra calories metabolized. The effect of duration on the 50 % V02 max condition found that EPOC went from approximately 3 liters at 20 minutes, to 5 liters at 50 minutes, and finally to 6 liters at 80 minutes of duration. The effect of duration on the 70% V02 max condition found that EPOC went from 6, to 10, and finally 14.6 liters of 02 consumed for 20, 50, and 80 minute durations. As a reference the 14.6 liters of 02 consumed in excess in the 70 % V02 max, 80 minute duration condition was approximately 70 extra calories of energy expended or approximately 40 extra calories than the 50 minute condition at 50 minutes duration. While the data from this study clearly shows a positive relationship between intensity and duration on EPOC, the amount of calories metabolized in excess is concluded by the authors to be ? of little physiological significance for weight loss?? Further, the average amount of calories metabolized during EPOC was approximately 4 % of the total energy cost of exercise, which addresses the statement that , ?the majority of calories burned will come after your workout( Phillips)!

EPOC burns an insignificant amount of calories post exercise...

We can both sit here all day posting studies that disprove the other, but instead I will ask you a question.

Why when I run a 5k in the morning, with an average heart rate of 178 for 24 minutes, am I so ravenous the rest of the day, but when I do a recovery run at say an average 125 heart rate for 45 minutes, I am not as hungry during the day? My eating habits are very consistent and lack of food or excess is not the case?

[wubby]

We can both sit here all day posting studies that disprove the other, but instead I will ask you a question.

Why when I run a 5k in the morning, with an average heart rate of 178 for 24 minutes, am I so ravenous the rest of the day, but when I do a recovery run at say an average 125 heart rate for 45 minutes, I am not as hungry during the day? My eating habits are very consistent and lack of food or excess is not the case?

I agree, quoting studies is worthless. I also think there are a lot more variables at play and no one really understands the human physiology enough to explain. Either way you are burning calories and the minor percentage difference between the two is insignificant compared to variations in most peoples diets from day to day.

Maybe your body thinks you were hauling ass to get away from a saber tooth tiger so it wants you to load up on carbs in case you have to do it again tomorrow morning :)

[gjohnson5]

I would like to see your data suggesting post exercise metabolism increase is the reason for your hunger or lack there of.
Hunger is a function of leptin levels in the body as well as the level of leptin resistance due to bodyfat , insulin sensitivity and exercise levels for extended periods of time


We can both sit here all day posting studies that disprove the other, but instead I will ask you a question.

Why when I run a 5k in the morning, with an average heart rate of 178 for 24 minutes, am I so ravenous the rest of the day, but when I do a recovery run at say an average 125 heart rate for 45 minutes, I am not as hungry during the day? My eating habits are very consistent and lack of food or excess is not the case?

[gjohnson5]

Sorry to post another study , but I'm using this data to debunk the idea that if one exercises regularly , being more intense one day will make one more hungry for that day and vice versa

http://www.ebmonline.org/cgi/content/full/227/9/701

Short-term exercise (<60 min) studies suggest that leptin concentrations are not acutely affected in healthy males and females. Most reports of reductions in serum leptin may be attributed to circadian rhythms or hemoconcentration. For long-term (60 min) exercise, a reduction in leptin concentrations reported from 1 to 3 hr of running or cycling has been attributed to diurnal reduction in circulating leptin, independent of exercise. Exercise that produces a sufficient energy imbalance (kilocalorie intake versus kilocalorie expenditure) suppresses 24-hr mean and amplitude of the diurnal rhythm of leptin in women. Suppression of leptin concentrations may be counterbalanced by feeding and may explain consistent reports of reductions in leptin concentrations following extreme bouts of exercise such as marathons or ultramarathons. In addition, leptin concentrations are reduced 48 hr after long-term aerobic exercise and long-term resistance exercise is associated with delayed leptin reduction 9 hr postexercise. Training studies have documented that short-term exercise training (12 weeks) does not affect leptin levels, with the exception of patients with type 2 diabetes. Exercise training protocols that result in reduced fat mass will lower leptin concentrations, thus, most investigators have reported leptin concentrations after accounting for fat loss. There are disparate findings concerning long-term (>12 weeks) training studies, with a number of studies finding no effect of training on leptin concentrations other than effects induced by fat loss, and other studies finding reductions in leptin concentrations after accounting for fat loss. Exercise training-induced reductions in leptin levels have been attributed to alterations in energy balance, improvements in insulin sensitivity, alterations in lipid metabolism, and unknown factors. Hormone replacement does not seem to affect leptin adaptations to training. Patients with type 2 diabetes show delayed effects of short-term resistance exercise on leptin concentrations, reduced leptin levels with long-term training, and appear to be more sensitive to training-induced leptin adaptations than other populations.

I would like to see some data that shows how one would be hungier if they exercised more acutely one day , if they train regularly. As this information states. adjustments in bodyfat and insulin sensitivity probably have more to do with this then the energy levels expended by exercise for that one day



I would like to see your data suggesting post exercise metabolism increase is the reason for your hunger or lack there of.
Hunger is a function of leptin levels in the body as well as the level of leptin resistance due to bodyfat and exercise levels

[yellowrv]

It is what it is
I would run when I want to get better at running.......

A precour machine or other elliptical is much easier on the joints and the low impact makes it easier to do for longer periods of time. Not to mention they can be inclined , declined , increase resistance on the pedals and have programs in which mimmic HIIT or steady state. This is aside from the fact that you can use them in the air conditioning....

Anything else?
Hey Bunny !!!!!!!!!

I run because it does burn fat, albeit not very efficiently, but more for the fact it gets me out of the AC, is brutal on my joints, and puts me in the environment I was designed and evolved to operate in. In my suffering on the trails I find great value.

[snoack]

Okay, my first post in this thread. First, some back ground-

As part of the fitness aspect of my upcoming black belt exam, I have to be able to run 2 miles in 20 minutes. I haven't run seriously in God knows how many years...probably 20...but I used to be an avid runner and REALLY enjoyed it. So, last night I went to the track, and got into a 1/2 groove where I did a brisk paced walk for 1 lap and and easy paced run for 2. All together, I did 9 laps, 2 1/4 mile of which I ran 1 1/2 miles. Took just under 30 minutes to complete.

Things I liked-

I was able to regulate my breating fairly easily. I do a lot of cardio, and have spent several years hevaily involved in MA training. This definitely helps

My initial pace was right where I need to be for my run, which was really cool because I'll get better. I have 6 weeks to train for this and plan on running 4x per week, maybe more if it really clicks

My mechanics felt good. Didn't feel like I was coming down akwardly or in a bad way. Have no residual pain this morning.

My last lap was my strongest, and my last half lap I was really starting to stretch it out and stride.

At this point, seeing as my initial experience was so positive, I envision making the push to get back into running all the way and making it a regular component in my training moving forward. Will I ever be back to the 6-8 miles per day 5x per week with the occasional 10-12 thrown in that I was in my early 20's...doubtful...but who knows, right?

[snoack]

...oh, and for anybody who says running doesn't burn fat efficiently...

when I was going through the process of hitting my peak I dropped 85 pounds in 5 months...ever see a fat marathon runner?

[bhaputi]

Glad to hear it went well, snoack.


Will I ever be back to the 6-8 miles per day 5x per week with the occasional 10-12 thrown in that I was in my early 20's...doubtful...but who knows, right?

If you take it easy and slowly build up you could easily surpass the mileage you were doing back then. Maybe even the pace.

[bhaputi]

...oh, and for anybody who says running doesn't burn fat efficiently...

when I was going through the process of hitting my peak I dropped 85 pounds in 5 months...ever see a fat marathon runner?

I think most people would agree that it does burn fat, but many also think you cannot run without also burning muscle at an unacceptable rate.

[snoack]

Glad to hear it went well, snoack.



If you take it easy and slowly build up you could easily surpass the mileage you were doing back then. Maybe even the pace.

that's what I'm thinking. I'm staging my goals. Right now, I want to be able to do 3 miles in under 30 minutes by the time I test. Once I hit that, next goal is 5 miles. If it continues to go well, I'd like to see if maybe I could train to run a marathon someday. That's on my bucket list.


I think most people would agree that it does burn fat, but many also think you cannot run without also burning muscle at an unacceptable rate.

wouldn't proper nutrition and weight training play a role here as well? Obviously, I'm no expert...but I've got to think how you train would come into play here as well.

btw- call me Steve. My handle is the highly imaginitive first initial/last name.

[bhaputi]

that's what I'm thinking. I'm staging my goals. Right now, I want to be able to do 3 miles in under 30 minutes by the time I test. Once I hit that, next goal is 5 miles. If it continues to go well, I'd like to see if maybe I could train to run a marathon someday. That's on my bucket list.



wouldn't proper nutrition and weight training play a role here as well? Obviously, I'm no expert...but I've got to think how you train would come into play here as well.

btw- call me Steve. My handle is the highly imaginitive first initial/last name.

Nice to meet you, Steve. :)
<=== Dan

Yeah, nutrition and weight training would definitely play into it. I know that I have lost some lower body mass since ramping up my mileage last year, but I also do not work my lower body as much anymore and I was squatting 2-3 times weekly before that. As for my upper body, I have added mass there - nothing major, but the measurements are headed in the right direction.

As for the running goals - kudos to you. I started running initially for the simple exercise component (I was about 300 pounds then). Eventually, I decided to attempt a career-change that dictated me being able to do a 300M sprint in < 52 seconds and 1.5 miler in less than 12 minutes, so I started focusing on performance. To keep me motivated, I started signing up for local 5K races (have done about 12 or so I think), and realized for a 6'2" 200 pound guy I am actually decently quick. I was entertaining the thought of running a marathon too, but have recently decided that training for that and hitting the academy for 5 months will not work well together, so I am focusing on speed. I want to qualify for Boston at my first marathon, so I am training to hit the pace needed for that at shorter distances, then working my way up.

Do not think for a second that being 44 means you are past your prime in anything physically related. The trainer I work with has run Boston several times, regularly hits 3 hours for marathons, and also finished first in almost every local race with regular 17 minute 5Ks. He is 45, has had numerous knee surgeries, and is not the rail thin marathon type as he also lifts weights and does lots of bodyweight training. I want to be like him when I grow up :)

[snoack]

Nice to meet you, Steve. :)
<=== Dan

Yeah, nutrition and weight training would definitely play into it. I know that I have lost some lower body mass since ramping up my mileage last year, but I also do not work my lower body as much anymore and I was squatting 2-3 times weekly before that. As for my upper body, I have added mass there - nothing major, but the measurements are headed in the right direction.

As for the running goals - kudos to you. I started running initially for the simple exercise component (I was about 300 pounds then). Eventually, I decided to attempt a career-change that dictated me being able to do a 300M sprint in < 52 seconds and 1.5 miler in less than 12 minutes, so I started focusing on performance. To keep me motivated, I started signing up for local 5K races (have done about 12 or so I think), and realized for a 6'2" 200 pound guy I am actually decently quick. I was entertaining the thought of running a marathon too, but have recently decided that training for that and hitting the academy for 5 months will not work well together, so I am focusing on speed. I want to qualify for Boston at my first marathon, so I am training to hit the pace needed for that at shorter distances, then working my way up.

Do not think for a second that being 44 means you are past your prime in anything physically related. The trainer I work with has run Boston several times, regularly hits 3 hours for marathons, and also finished first in almost every local race with regular 17 minute 5Ks. He is 45, has had numerous knee surgeries, and is not the rail thin marathon type as he also lifts weights and does lots of bodyweight training. I want to be like him when I grow up :)

The thing with me is that I'm already in good shape to start with, it's more a matter of transitioning effort to a different type of training. I did my regular morning cardio session yesterday on top of this, so my legs were a bit whupped to start with.

As far as being 44...all age is is a number. I'm in better shape then 99% of guys out there who are 10-20 years younger then me. Remember, I'm about to become a black belt at this age...not a whole lot of people can say that!:) Plus, I've been blessed with a strong physique that seems to be able to withstand just about anything.

[SP1966]

Running, I hate it!

For cardio I have been walking at a 4.5mph pace at a 10.5 incline, OK workout but I just don't feel like I'm really working. So I have started running on the treadmill. I started by running 3min out of every 5min for the first half hour then finished by walking at the previously mentioned pace. I figure I will work up to running the half hour straight. This seem like a plan to all you runners? Have any better ideas for me?

Of course the hardest part so far, other then breathing, is when I am watching one of the TV's in the gym, I tend to run in that direction so I have to try to just focus on a point in front of me! I look stupid enough just being me, I don't really want to wipe out on the tm!

[chrisbute]

Running, I hate it!

For cardio I have been walking at a 4.5mph pace at a 10.5 incline, OK workout but I just don't feel like I'm really working. So I have started running on the treadmill. I started by running 3min out of every 5min for the first half hour then finished by walking at the previously mentioned pace. I figure I will work up to running the half hour straight. This seem like a plan to all you runners? Have any better ideas for me?

Of course the hardest part so far, other then breathing, is when I am watching one of the TV's in the gym, I tend to run in that direction so I have to try to just focus on a point in front of me! I look stupid enough just being me, I don't really want to wipe out on the tm!

That is fine to do 3 minute running intervals to get your body used to running until you can run for the full 30 minutes.

As for "entertainment", I swear by my ipod. Customize your playlist, turn it on and the workout seems to go much faster.

[Ophus]

Sorry to post another study , but I'm using this data to debunk the idea that if one exercises regularly , being more intense one day will make one more hungry for that day and vice versa

http://www.ebmonline.org/cgi/content/full/227/9/701

Short-term exercise (<60 min) studies suggest that leptin concentrations are not acutely affected in healthy males and females. Most reports of reductions in serum leptin may be attributed to circadian rhythms or hemoconcentration. For long-term (60 min) exercise, a reduction in leptin concentrations reported from 1 to 3 hr of running or cycling has been attributed to diurnal reduction in circulating leptin, independent of exercise. Exercise that produces a sufficient energy imbalance (kilocalorie intake versus kilocalorie expenditure) suppresses 24-hr mean and amplitude of the diurnal rhythm of leptin in women. Suppression of leptin concentrations may be counterbalanced by feeding and may explain consistent reports of reductions in leptin concentrations following extreme bouts of exercise such as marathons or ultramarathons. In addition, leptin concentrations are reduced 48 hr after long-term aerobic exercise and long-term resistance exercise is associated with delayed leptin reduction 9 hr postexercise. Training studies have documented that short-term exercise training (12 weeks) does not affect leptin levels, with the exception of patients with type 2 diabetes. Exercise training protocols that result in reduced fat mass will lower leptin concentrations, thus, most investigators have reported leptin concentrations after accounting for fat loss. There are disparate findings concerning long-term (>12 weeks) training studies, with a number of studies finding no effect of training on leptin concentrations other than effects induced by fat loss, and other studies finding reductions in leptin concentrations after accounting for fat loss. Exercise training-induced reductions in leptin levels have been attributed to alterations in energy balance, improvements in insulin sensitivity, alterations in lipid metabolism, and unknown factors. Hormone replacement does not seem to affect leptin adaptations to training. Patients with type 2 diabetes show delayed effects of short-term resistance exercise on leptin concentrations, reduced leptin levels with long-term training, and appear to be more sensitive to training-induced leptin adaptations than other populations.


I have a hard time believing this, my whole life contradicts it completely, maybe its because I carefully monitor calories in and out, I don't know. When I run I am more hungry than days I don't and when I have a high intesity day, I am even more hungry. Of course I do excercise hard enough that I can go into ketosis within 1 day, if I am not paying very close attention.

I told you we could do this all day and still prove nothing, you have to go with what feels right.

http://etd-submit.etsu.edu/etd/theses/available/etd-0412101-214442/unrestricted/king0417.pdf

Broeder et al. (1991) also found that exercise intensity plays a greater role in the increase
in EPOC than does exercise duration. Ten male subjects were equally divided into a lean group
and a borderline obese group. All subjects participated in four exercise sessions. In two of these
sessions, subjects walked at 30% of VO2max and in two sessions, subjects walked on an incline
at 60% of VO2max. The duration of all exercise sessions was set to expend 720 kcal. In one
session for each exercise intensity, subjects were given a post-exercise meal equal in caloric
value to the energy expended. In the other two sessions, no replacement meal was given. Excess
post-exercise oxygen consumption was then measured for three hours following the treatment
period. In order to distinguish the effect of exercise on EPOC from that of dietary induced
thermogenesis, only the non-feeding trials will be discussed. In both the lean and borderline
obese groups, the exercise at 60% of VO2max produced a significant change in oxygen uptake
over this time (lean: 0.238 ? 0.02 L?min to 0.274 ? 0.03 L?min; borderline obese: 0.229 ? 0.01
L?min to 0.256 ? 0.02 L?min; p < 0.01). Despite the fact that the lower intensity exercise would
have caused duration to be much longer than in the session at 60% of VO2max, no such change
was found in the session at 30% of VO2max (lean: 0.239 ? 0.02 L?min to 0.252 ? 0.02 L?min;
borderline obese: 0.235 ? 0.01 L?min to 0.248 ? 0.01 L?min; NS). This indicates that intensity
34
rather than duration or total energy expenditure during exercise will have an effect on EPOC for
up to 3 hours post-exercise.


Sorry for boring everyone else.

[SP1966]

ever see a fat marathon runner?

That's the thing, look at a marathon runner and sprinter side by side, it is amazing the difference! I would much rather look like the sprinter, but I do not have the patience to go that route. I have to either cut or bulk, to try to combine them hurts my little brain!

[snoack]

That is fine to do 3 minute running intervals to get your body used to running until you can run for the full 30 minutes.

As for "entertainment", I swear by my ipod. Customize your playlist, turn it on and the workout seems to go much faster.

I put my MP3 player on, cranked up the volume, and took off. Staging definitely helps.

[gjohnson5]

The question isn't that EPOC happens.
We know that post exercise oxygen consumption is based on exercise intensity

But the idea that EPOC will burn significantly more calories then low intensity is the issue.




I have a hard time believing this, my whole life contradicts it completely, maybe its because I carefully monitor calories in and out, I don't know. When I run I am more hungry than days I don't and when I have a high intesity day, I am even more hungry. Of course I do excercise hard enough that I can go into ketosis within 1 day, if I am not paying very close attention.

I told you we could do this all day and still prove nothing, you have to go with what feels right.

http://etd-submit.etsu.edu/etd/theses/available/etd-0412101-214442/unrestricted/king0417.pdf

Broeder et al. (1991) also found that exercise intensity plays a greater role in the increase
in EPOC than does exercise duration. Ten male subjects were equally divided into a lean group
and a borderline obese group. All subjects participated in four exercise sessions. In two of these
sessions, subjects walked at 30% of VO2max and in two sessions, subjects walked on an incline
at 60% of VO2max. The duration of all exercise sessions was set to expend 720 kcal. In one
session for each exercise intensity, subjects were given a post-exercise meal equal in caloric
value to the energy expended. In the other two sessions, no replacement meal was given. Excess
post-exercise oxygen consumption was then measured for three hours following the treatment
period. In order to distinguish the effect of exercise on EPOC from that of dietary induced
thermogenesis, only the non-feeding trials will be discussed. In both the lean and borderline
obese groups, the exercise at 60% of VO2max produced a significant change in oxygen uptake
over this time (lean: 0.238 ? 0.02 L?min to 0.274 ? 0.03 L?min; borderline obese: 0.229 ? 0.01
L?min to 0.256 ? 0.02 L?min; p < 0.01). Despite the fact that the lower intensity exercise would
have caused duration to be much longer than in the session at 60% of VO2max, no such change
was found in the session at 30% of VO2max (lean: 0.239 ? 0.02 L?min to 0.252 ? 0.02 L?min;
borderline obese: 0.235 ? 0.01 L?min to 0.248 ? 0.01 L?min; NS). This indicates that intensity
34
rather than duration or total energy expenditure during exercise will have an effect on EPOC for
up to 3 hours post-exercise.


Sorry for boring everyone else.

[gjohnson5]

Sorry , I had to adjust my firewall...

But the statement EPOC is a myth should be removed here.
EPOC is not a myth
The idea that it causes a significant caloric expenditure is what needs to be removed



EPOc is a myth

EPOC burns an insignificant amount of calories post exercise...

[uncbob]

I have seen some damn well built dudes finishing marathons

Weren't up front but weren't bringing up the rear either

As long as you eat and workout with the weights you should be OK

I ran 8 marathons on 3 day a week training and didn't lose any muscle

[SP1966]

I have seen some damn well built dudes finishing marathons

Weren't up front but weren't bringing up the rear either

As long as you eat and workout with the weights you should be OK

I ran 8 marathons on 3 day a week training and didn't lose any muscle

Did you leave your fridge to do anything other than run? I could not imagine what you would need to eat to support hypertrophy and running 26+ miles with any regularity!! Great job that you did!

[uncbob]

Did you leave your fridge to do anything other than run? I could not imagine what you would need to eat to support hypertrophy and running 26+ miles with any regularity!! Great job that you did!

In my prime--45-50

Weight training in my basement 1/2 hr then a 10 bike ride on the street then dinner --Mon Wed Fri

10 mile run then dinner Tue Thur

40 mile bike ride SAT

15-20 mile run on Sun

Worked 8 hrs as an engineer 5 days a week

AFTER dinner every night did cabinet making etc in my basement for 2 hours
Built all my own furniture except for the sofa love set and recliner

Ran two marathons and two 1/2 marathons a year

Felt great

BTW My wife did the SAME routine except for the cabinet making --she did Cross stitch --after working as a teacher during the day

[snoack]

Second day went really well, very pleased.

Started off at a slow paced run to warm up and build momentum, got into a regular stride. Looked like this:

ran 3 laps

brisk walked 1

ran 3 laps (last lap finished at my strongest pace)

walked 1

ran 1

goal tomorrow-

3/1/3/1/2

goal by Sunday-

4/1/4/1

4 laps=1 mile, once I can do that then I can start really working with it and tweaking it

[bcrank]

If you want to burn fat , you might wanna pick up another method of cardio.
Running isn't a very effective method for burning fat at any pace...

everytime there is a positive thread with people talking about how they accomplished something thru their actions(in the case losing fat running) someone will cite a study or studies that "disprove" what everyone is accomplishing.......studies are just that, studies, and while in the scientific world that may hold weight, in the real world where we live people working hard ,taking initiative and making it happen is what truly matters.....no offense gjohnson but the 15 or so people on here ,including myself, who have lost a lot of fat by running, while gaining muscle disprove any controlled lab study u can cite

[snoack]

everytime there is a positive thread with people talking about how they accomplished something thru their actions(in the case losing fat running) someone will cite a study or studies that "disprove" what everyone is accomplishing.......studies are just that, studies, and while in the scientific world that may hold weight, in the real world where we live people working hard ,taking initiative and making it happen is what truly matters.....no offense gjohnson but the 15 or so people on here ,including myself, who have lost a lot of fat by running, while gaining muscle disprove any controlled lab study u can cite


+1!. I know what it did for me once a long time ago, and I know that after just a couple days I feel completely different. Perhaps that's the anticipation of knowing what's coming. :D

[IronCamp]

I lost 8% BF while including running in my workout plan...just sayin!

Edited: I should add that was done w/o losing a significant amount of weight. I increased LBM and decreased BF. It can be done.

[rpaul11]

I'm very discouraged about my running. Earlier this spring I was running 4 miles 3 or 4 days a week at just under a 9 min mile. Then one day after my run I get home...eat dinner then lay on the couch for about 30 minutes till we had to leave for my daughters softball game. I stood up and bam...terrible deep pain in my right hip. Not muscular. More like pressure on a nerve type pain...shooting into my leg. It worked itself out in a few days, but now every time I try and run I get this pain. I can do an eliptical no problem, bike, play tennis......but if I run...it acts up again. Anybody ever experience this?

[Braindrop]

It sounds like a hip pointer, but it seems like you'd remember something like that... I suggest a good deep-tissue massage therapist, or a chiro that does ART.

[rpaul11]

It sounds like a hip pointer, but it seems like you'd remember something like that... I suggest a good deep-tissue massage therapist, or a chiro that does ART.

my chiro adjusts my hip when it happens and is assuring me it will get stronger. And it is not a sudden wow I hurt it. It generally is several hours after the fact that it starts to hurt.

Usually one good adjustment and one day not running it is fine...but I can go 2 weeks without running...go run 2 miles...and ouch

[Ophus]

my chiro adjusts my hip when it happens and is assuring me it will get stronger. And it is not a sudden wow I hurt it. It generally is several hours after the fact that it starts to hurt.

Usually one good adjustment and one day not running it is fine...but I can go 2 weeks without running...go run 2 miles...and ouch

I suffer from something similar from time to time, the first time it happened, I traced it to my shoes. I had bought the completely wrong kind of shoe. Changed shoes and have much less problem with it now.

Just a thought.

[Ophus]

Sorry , I had to adjust my firewall...

But the statement EPOC is a myth should be removed here.
EPOC is not a myth
The idea that it causes a significant caloric expenditure is what needs to be removed

Here is another excerpt from the article I posted earlier. RMR is elevated for up to 24 hours, you may call it insignificant, but I will take anything I can get. I like the last sentence, I believe its what we all, are wanting to achieve.

The purpose of this study was to investigate the role exercise intensity plays in reducing body
weight and percent body fat in overweight women. Subjects were randomized to either a high
intensity interval training group (IT) or a lower intensity steady state training group (ST). Each
group exercised 3 times per week for 8 weeks and expended 300 kcal per exercise session.
VO2max, body composition, and resting metabolic rate (RMR) were measured pre and post
training. RMR was measured after exercise at week 2 to see if intensity levels affected RMR.
VO2max and body composition improved in IT but not in ST. Neither group showed a change in
RMR from pretest to posttest; however, IT had an increase in RMR 24 hours post-exercise
whereas ST did not. These findings show that high intensity interval exercise produces
improvements in body composition, fitness, and acute RMR compared to low intensity steady
state training.

[gjohnson5]

everytime there is a positive thread with people talking about how they accomplished something thru their actions(in the case losing fat running) someone will cite a study or studies that "disprove" what everyone is accomplishing.......studies are just that, studies, and while in the scientific world that may hold weight, in the real world where we live people working hard ,taking initiative and making it happen is what truly matters.....no offense gjohnson but the 15 or so people on here ,including myself, who have lost a lot of fat by running, while gaining muscle disprove any controlled lab study u can cite

Do what you feel works
What the studies do is post up best practices

This is all I was trying to say in the first place
Running works, but science indicates there are better ways

[rpaul11]

I suffer from something similar from time to time, the first time it happened, I traced it to my shoes. I had bought the completely wrong kind of shoe. Changed shoes and have much less problem with it now.

Just a thought.

wow...I know nothing about shoes. Where can I get good help with this. I would love to start running regularly again. I have a goal to do a 10K but it won't happen if this doesn't improve

[yellowrv]

Although this is a BB site I love the fact that an over 35 runners thread can be so popular...kudos to Bando for starting it! I have gained so much inspiration and valuable information on here it's amazing! I think that a lot of us have the same motivation and that is to get fit and live a health lifestyle.For some cardio isn't the answer and for the rest of us it is. I wish at times that I could quit runn.ing and just lift weights, but remind myself the benefit my overall health is getting by doing cardio. So whatever your motive might be keeping posting and working hard, I enjoy reading what all of you have to say!

We are designed to lift and run. That's why cross training makes you so happy. Shifting gears is tough mentally, but oh so good physically ! Our ancestors did both weekly some 10K years ago. Forced by nature to do this they became stronger and more fit. Lessons that we should heed.

[bhaputi]

wow...I know nothing about shoes. Where can I get good help with this. I would love to start running regularly again. I have a goal to do a 10K but it won't happen if this doesn't improve

Do you have a local running store? If you tell me what city you are near/in, I can maybe help you find one. You want one that does gait analysis.

[rpaul11]

Do you have a local running store? If you tell me what city you are near/in, I can maybe help you find one. You want one that does gait analysis.

in all honesty I have no idea where a running store would be. I am in Pittsburgh, PA. Washington PA is close also

[kitebean]

I ran my first 10k yesterday, it was easy, and i loved it ;)

[bhaputi]

in all honesty I have no idea where a running store would be. I am in Pittsburgh, PA. Washington PA is close also

Looks like you have a few (note: I know none of these, but have heard of Fleet Feet):

http://www.fleetfeetpittsburgh.com/
http://www.eliterunners.com/category_s/1.htm


Google for "pittsburgh running stores" to see more if interested.

[bhaputi]

I ran my first 10k yesterday, it was easy, and i loved it ;)

Cool - did you meet your goal on it?

[kitebean]

Cool - did you meet your goal on it?

LOL the goal was to do it - so, yes.... up until a month ago i had never even run 5k :o just wasn't my thing (lifting is my thing!!) - but I am becoming slightly addicted methinks!

[snoack]

Well, I hit an intial goal today (nothing as grandiose as running a 10K). I got my first full mile in today, running today looked like this-

4/1/3/1/2

ran 2 1/4 miles out 2 3/4 miles total on the track today. Had to walk a few feet in each group (literally a few, maybe 50-100 each time), but finished off the last lap in each group at a strong pace. Breathing felt good today, nice rythym.

[rpaul11]

Looks like you have a few (note: I know none of these, but have heard of Fleet Feet):

http://www.fleetfeetpittsburgh.com/
http://www.eliterunners.com/category_s/1.htm


Google for "pittsburgh running stores" to see more if interested.


thank you :)



Well, I hit an intial goal today (nothing as grandiose as running a 10K). I got my first full mile in today, running today looked like this-

4/1/3/1/2

ran 2 1/4 miles out 2 3/4 miles total on the track today. Had to walk a few feet in each group (literally a few, maybe 50-100 each time), but finished off the last lap in each group at a strong pace. Breathing felt good today, nice rythym.


good job snoak

[Ophus]

wow...I know nothing about shoes. Where can I get good help with this. I would love to start running regularly again. I have a goal to do a 10K but it won't happen if this doesn't improve

Hi Sorry I'm a little late anwsering, you have gotten good advice on finding a running shop. Make sure the people know what they are doing and don't just say this shoe should work for you, without asking a lot of questions. I live in a rural area and had to figure it out the hard way. If you want to find info, google pronation and you should be able to learn alot and then you can ask some good questions at your local running store, plus know if they are just blowing up your skirt. Here is a link to get you started.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-327-7727-0,00.html

[rpaul11]

Hi Sorry I'm a little late anwsering, you have gotten good advice on finding a running shop. Make sure the people know what they are doing and don't just say this shoe should work for you, without asking a lot of questions. I live in a rural area and had to figure it out the hard way. If you want to find info, google pronation and you should be able to learn alot and then you can ask some good questions at your local running store, plus know if they are just blowing up your skirt. Here is a link to get you started.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-327-7727-0,00.html

thanks for your reply...but you link does not work for me. I will google pronation and see where it takes me :)

[Ophus]

Sorry to post another study , but I'm using this data to debunk the idea that if one exercises regularly , being more intense one day will make one more hungry for that day and vice versa

http://www.ebmonline.org/cgi/content/full/227/9/701

Short-term exercise (<60 min) studies suggest that leptin concentrations are not acutely affected in healthy males and females. Most reports of reductions in serum leptin may be attributed to circadian rhythms or hemoconcentration. For long-term (60 min) exercise, a reduction in leptin concentrations reported from 1 to 3 hr of running or cycling has been attributed to diurnal reduction in circulating leptin, independent of exercise. Exercise that produces a sufficient energy imbalance (kilocalorie intake versus kilocalorie expenditure) suppresses 24-hr mean and amplitude of the diurnal rhythm of leptin in women. Suppression of leptin concentrations may be counterbalanced by feeding and may explain consistent reports of reductions in leptin concentrations following extreme bouts of exercise such as marathons or ultramarathons. In addition, leptin concentrations are reduced 48 hr after long-term aerobic exercise and long-term resistance exercise is associated with delayed leptin reduction 9 hr postexercise. Training studies have documented that short-term exercise training (12 weeks) does not affect leptin levels, with the exception of patients with type 2 diabetes. Exercise training protocols that result in reduced fat mass will lower leptin concentrations, thus, most investigators have reported leptin concentrations after accounting for fat loss. There are disparate findings concerning long-term (>12 weeks) training studies, with a number of studies finding no effect of training on leptin concentrations other than effects induced by fat loss, and other studies finding reductions in leptin concentrations after accounting for fat loss. Exercise training-induced reductions in leptin levels have been attributed to alterations in energy balance, improvements in insulin sensitivity, alterations in lipid metabolism, and unknown factors. Hormone replacement does not seem to affect leptin adaptations to training. Patients with type 2 diabetes show delayed effects of short-term resistance exercise on leptin concentrations, reduced leptin levels with long-term training, and appear to be more sensitive to training-induced leptin adaptations than other populations.

I would like to see some data that shows how one would be hungier if they exercised more acutely one day , if they train regularly. As this information states. adjustments in bodyfat and insulin sensitivity probably have more to do with this then the energy levels expended by exercise for that one day

There is much more to do with hunger than leptin, they obviously don't understand the mechanism of hunger or the leptin trials would have been a success for weight loss. Here is some more info on another hormone that has to do with hunger.

http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/news/leptin.htm

Of course, it probably won't ever be as simple as that. Leptin itself affects only one mechanism of weight control; the body has many overlapping systems, in a baffling array of positive and negative feedback loops. One of these is the hormone ghrelin, which sends a signal to the brain to eat whenever the stomach is empty and ease up when it's full; some patients are being experimentally treated with electronic "pacemakers" that apparently fool the ghrelin system into thinking the stomach is fuller than it is.

[dbx]

I ran my first 10k yesterday, it was easy, and i loved it ;)

I hate you for saying it was easy :p :D Congrats!!! :cool:


Just checking in with the pro runners here and wanted to share a story.... Even while at the beach on the 4th, I managed to do a 3 miles run Sat morning. The cool thing about it? My 230lb, 14yr old nephew came with me. Yes, he's obese, but he went from like, 5' tall to 6' practically in one year, and he's now playing football and is entering the 9th grade. Anyway, I'm known as being competitive when it comes to games and stuff, so he was a bit hesitant...thinking I'd be talking trash while smoking him, lofl (I would never even consider it given the circumstances here).

Anyway, he's never run more than 1.5 miles before, and had to stop and walk 4 times before we got to the halfway point. I jogged in place and even backwards while talking with him and encouraging him to push himself a tad (very delicately!). At the halfway point he insisted I go ahead on without him, so I did, as my legs were killing me from the extra slow pace. I got back to my folk's house, took 2 shots of BCAAs (yeah, I took em' with me) and water, and went back to find him. He was almost done, as he had walked/run/walked etc., the whole time.

The thing that touched me the most was when he said, "Thanks Uncle Kev, for taking me with you." The poor kid looked like he'd just stepped out of a pool (not unlike me, lol). My sister has been divorced for years, and her ex died one year ago this month, so her 2 boys have never had a male figure around. Anyway, this really made me feel great, and of course, I was really impressed with his determination to complete the 3 mile run. He drove back to ATL with me and my oldest son, and all he could talk about was getting in shape, diet, etc... It was a great 4th of July :cool:

[rpaul11]

I hate you for saying it was easy :p :D Congrats!!! :cool:


Just checking in with the pro runners here and wanted to share a story.... Even while at the beach on the 4th, I managed to do a 3 miles run Sat morning. The cool thing about it? My 230lb, 14yr old nephew came with me. Yes, he's obese, but he went from like, 5' tall to 6' practically in one year, and he's now playing football and is entering the 9th grade. Anyway, I'm known as being competitive when it comes to games and stuff, so he was a bit hesitant...thinking I'd be talking trash while smoking him, lofl (I would never even consider it given the circumstances here).

Anyway, he's never run more than 1.5 miles before, and had to stop and walk 4 times before we got to the halfway point. I jogged in place and even backwards while talking with him and encouraging him to push himself a tad (very delicately!). At the halfway point he insisted I go ahead on without him, so I did, as my legs were killing me from the extra slow pace. I got back to my folk's house, took 2 shots of BCAAs (yeah, I took em' with me) and water, and went back to find him. He was almost done, as he had walked/run/walked etc., the whole time.

The thing that touched me the most was when he said, "Thanks Uncle Kev, for taking me with you." The poor kid looked like he'd just stepped out of a pool (not unlike me, lol). My sister has been divorced for years, and her ex died one year ago this month, so her 2 boys have never had a male figure around. Anyway, this really made me feel great, and of course, I was really impressed with his determination to complete the 3 mile run. He drove back to ATL with me and my oldest son, and all he could talk about was getting in shape, diet, etc... It was a great 4th of July :cool:

good story and hopefully he sticks with it. :)

BTW...I went to fleet feet yesterday and got fitted for some new shoes. Gonna try about 2 miles tonight on the treadmill to see how the hip holds up.

[snoack]

Going to try to step it up tonight. Did a full mile on Sunday, then another 3/4 after walking one lap and 1/2 after walking another lap. Tonight I'm going to try to do 2 1 mile segments. If that works, starting Thursday, I'm going to try to reduce my walk time between each by 1/4 lap each time out.

Not going to do the 1/2 mile at the end, as I have class tonight and won't have time.

I'll let you know how it goes. I feel great right now, so hopefully this will carry over.

[rpaul11]

Going to try to step it up tonight. Did a full mile on Sunday, then another 3/4 after walking one lap and 1/2 after walking another lap. Tonight I'm going to try to do 2 1 mile segments. If that works, starting Thursday, I'm going to try to reduce my walk time between each by 1/4 lap each time out.

Not going to do the 1/2 mile at the end, as I have class tonight and won't have time.

I'll let you know how it goes. I feel great right now, so hopefully this will carry over.

if you can do 1 then 3/4 after a 1/4 walk...you should have no issue adding on another 1/4 in the run...just work through it and go as much as you can :)

[dbx]

Going to try to step it up tonight. Did a full mile on Sunday, then another 3/4 after walking one lap and 1/2 after walking another lap. Tonight I'm going to try to do 2 1 mile segments. If that works, starting Thursday, I'm going to try to reduce my walk time between each by 1/4 lap each time out.

Not going to do the 1/2 mile at the end, as I have class tonight and won't have time.

I'll let you know how it goes. I feel great right now, so hopefully this will carry over.

Glad to see you're getting back into the groove. I did 2.6mi run after my workout this morning. I'll be doing my 2nd session in just a little while.

[snoack]

Glad to see you're getting back into the groove. I did 2.6mi run after my workout this morning. I'll be doing my 2nd session in just a little while.


Been doing it for a week now. It hurts, I'm still struggling to adapt my breathing...but I always look forward to it. I'm hoping to be at 3 miles by test date, and just move forward from there. Already have my first off track course laid out, 3.8 miles with some hills. Hope to be ready for that in about another 4-6 weeks.

[dbx]

Been doing it for a week now. It hurts, I'm still struggling to adapt my breathing...but I always look forward to it. I'm hoping to be at 3 miles by test date, and just move forward from there. Already have my first off track course laid out, 3.8 miles with some hills. Hope to be ready for that in about another 4-6 weeks.

It was truly amazing to me to witness how fast one can progress in running. You'll do it, no doubt. Now, if I could only translate that into lifting :).

[bhaputi]

I have been meeting with a guy twice a week at the track for speedwork. We do oh-so-fun things like this past Friday:

- 800M @ 3:06
- 3 minute rest
- 2 sets of 20 1-legged squats / 50 flying v's
- 3 minute rest
- 1 mile @ 6:37
- 3 minute rest
- 2 sets of 30 pushups / 50 supine bicycles
- 3 minute rest
- 1200M @ 5:04

The shorter rest time really sucks :(

We are meeting tonight (currently 84F and 52% humidity - yay!). We will do something similar, but the middle run will be sprints (probably 2x300M, 2x200M, then 4x100M).

Fun times indeed!

[bhaputi]

It was truly amazing to me to witness how fast one can progress in running. You'll do it, no doubt. Now, if I could only translate that into lifting :).

It is true that you can progress quickly, but people need to remember that there are 2 different components that need to adapt to running - their cardio-vascular and their musculo-skeletal. Rushing either one can be bad, but the CV usually adapts quicker (your tendons/ligaments need time to "toughen" up).

[snoack]

It is true that you can progress quickly, but people need to remember that there are 2 different components that need to adapt to running - their cardio-vascular and their musculo-skeletal. Rushing either one can be bad, but the CV usually adapts quicker (your tendons/ligaments need time to "toughen" up).

That's why I'm working on my distance first at a nice comfortable pace. Once I have that I can start building speed.

[rpaul11]

It is true that you can progress quickly, but people need to remember that there are 2 different components that need to adapt to running - their cardio-vascular and their musculo-skeletal. Rushing either one can be bad, but the CV usually adapts quicker (your tendons/ligaments need time to "toughen" up).

I learned that lesson with my hip :(

[bhaputi]

That's why I'm working on my distance first at a nice comfortable pace. Once I have that I can start building speed.

Definitely - smart move :)

[wubby]

That's why I'm working on my distance first at a nice comfortable pace. Once I have that I can start building speed.

Just to second the warning - ramping up distance too fast, even at a comfortable pace, is when I tend to get myself into trouble.

I like to endorse the 10% rule - to never add more than 10% to your weekly millage. It is hard to follow when you are just starting out though.

I should also mention that I endorse it - but I don't always follow it. It is one of those cases where I know what I should do and coach others accordingly, but I don't always listen to my own advice and get myself injured.

[rpaul11]

Just to second the warning - ramping up distance too fast, even at a comfortable pace, is when I tend to get myself into trouble.

I like to endorse the 10% rule - to never add more than 10% to your weekly millage. It is hard to follow when you are just starting out though.

I should also mention that I endorse it - but I don't always follow it. It is one of those cases where I know what I should do and coach others accordingly, but I don't always listen to my own advice and get myself injured.

sure now ya tell me :D

Well I ran tonight. Stretched real well before and after. Decided since every run I seem to be in pain the next day that I would only go a mile and do a 12 min mile...yes...I know...slow.

We'll see how it does in the AM

[snoack]

Ran 2 miles last night with a 1/4 mile break in the middle. Walked maybe 1/4 lap on the second mile, but finsihed the last 1/4 of the second mile at full stride. Didn't do the 1/2 mile at the end of my workout that I've been doing due to time constraints, I'll hit that Thursday.

Now the goal is to start reducing that walk lap in the middle. Going to tray to drop it by 1/4 lap over the next week. Breathing is no longer the issue, it's the legs at this point. But, they're getting stronger. Only a week ago they would have been aching this morning after running like that. Now, no problems, and that's after running 2 miles AND following that up with a full length TKD class (60 minutes)

man I feel good today!:)

[rpaul11]

good job man. You are coming along well. My issue is my muscles are strong, my lungs are strong and my joints/tendons are weak. I decided to just run 1 mile last night. I did it on the treadmill in the gym and went at a real slow 12 min mile pace. First time I have run in over 2 months that I didn't have pain in my hip the next day. Gonna keep it at 1 mile at 5 mph 1 day a week for now with brisk walking, bicycling, or eliptical on my other cardio days for a week or 2...then up it to 2 days a week if all goes well. Hopefully my hip is getting strong again.

[wubby]

sure now ya tell me :D

Well I ran tonight. Stretched real well before and after. Decided since every run I seem to be in pain the next day that I would only go a mile and do a 12 min mile...yes...I know...slow.

We'll see how it does in the AM


Speed is relative and unimportant in the beginning so never belittle your pace. You already did more than most people could do.

I avoid stretching much before a run since the muscles are still cold. I will stretch really well after a run and sometime use the foam roller to work out and problem spots. Before the run I do very light stretching or some dynamic stretching. Sometimes I will even stop mid run and stretch a little - it is amazing how much better you feel if you notice you are starting to get stiff during a run and you take the time to loosen up a little - it will open up your form and make it easier to go further.

[5krunner]

Ran 2 miles last night with a 1/4 mile break in the middle. Walked maybe 1/4 lap on the second mile, but finsihed the last 1/4 of the second mile at full stride. Didn't do the 1/2 mile at the end of my workout that I've been doing due to time constraints, I'll hit that Thursday.

Now the goal is to start reducing that walk lap in the middle. Going to tray to drop it by 1/4 lap over the next week. Breathing is no longer the issue, it's the legs at this point. But, they're getting stronger. Only a week ago they would have been aching this morning after running like that. Now, no problems, and that's after running 2 miles AND following that up with a full length TKD class (60 minutes)

man I feel good today!:)



Awesome work!! Sounds to me like you have a 5K in you in the near future!:)

[rpaul11]

Speed is relative and unimportant in the beginning so never belittle your pace. You already did more than most people could do.

.

I guess what bothers me is I know that I can go nuch longer and quite a bit faster if it wasn't for this nagging hip :(

I didn't realize that stretching before was a bad thing. I had a lifting session in already and a 5 min walk then I stretched. Is that ok?

and yes I stretched well after :)

[wubby]

I guess what bothers me is I know that I can go nuch longer and quite a bit faster if it wasn't for this nagging hip :(

I didn't realize that stretching before was a bad thing. I had a lifting session in already and a 5 min walk then I stretched. Is that ok?

and yes I stretched well after :)

Sounds like you were probably warmed up before you stretched - I think that is fine.

[snoack]

Awesome work!! Sounds to me like you have a 5K in you in the near future!:)

Like to be able to hit one this fall. Goal is once I get to 3 miles on the track I take it out on the road.

[T-Hawke]

I spot read the posts here and have to say for those folks getting into running - Keep at it! I've been a runner for years. No competitions or anything, just love doing it. Weight lifting has always been and on and off thing for me (though since the fall I've been much more focused on it) but running has been a part of me since my early thirties.

I can do a 5K in around 27 to 28 minutes. Not great but I just enjoy it. I can do 5 miles in around 50-52 minutes.

I try to run at least twice a week and enjoy doing the spot HIIT training here and there as well.

Keep up the goals - glad to hear folks are incorporating cardio into their workout - I think it is very important to do so. 1, 2, 3 mile runs a couple times a week is not going to make you lose muscle at any noticeable clip if at all.

[bhaputi]

I guess what bothers me is I know that I can go nuch longer and quite a bit faster if it wasn't for this nagging hip :(

I didn't realize that stretching before was a bad thing. I had a lifting session in already and a 5 min walk then I stretched. Is that ok?

and yes I stretched well after :)

Probably were fine, as wubby said. For me, stretching depends on the workout. If I am doing speedwork on the track, I do a 1/2-3/4 mile warmup, then do a bit of stretching, then the workout.

If I am doing any sort of distance, I do not stretch at all until I am done, unless I experience tightness. Then I will maybe stop and stretch for a minute or so.

[snoack]

Probably were fine, as wubby said. For me, stretching depends on the workout. If I am doing speedwork on the track, I do a 1/2-3/4 mile warmup, then do a bit of stretching, then the workout.

If I am doing any sort of distance, I do not stretch at all until I am done, unless I experience tightness. Then I will maybe stop and stretch for a minute or so.

I always stretch after. Hate to stretch cold muscles, you don't get as much range.

[5krunner]

Like to be able to hit one this fall. Goal is once I get to 3 miles on the track I take it out on the road.

I like your thinking and determination! Keep me posted on how it goes! :)

[chrisbute]

I have a race on Saturday. I picked up my race packet today and I'm nervous. It is a 4 miler and it is the heaviest I have ever been before a race. I'm hoping for 8:30 min/mile. Last year I was in the 7:30 min/mile range. What a difference 15 additional lbs makes when running 4 miles!

[rpaul11]

I have a race on Saturday. I picked up my race packet today and I'm nervous. It is a 4 miler and it is the heaviest I have ever been before a race. I'm hoping for 8:30 min/mile. Last year I was in the 7:30 min/mile range. What a difference 15 additional lbs makes when running 4 miles!

good luck with it man.

[5krunner]

I have a race on Saturday. I picked up my race packet today and I'm nervous. It is a 4 miler and it is the heaviest I have ever been before a race. I'm hoping for 8:30 min/mile. Last year I was in the 7:30 min/mile range. What a difference 15 additional lbs makes when running 4 miles!

Hey Chris! I'm running a 4 mile race Sat. morning myself! Best of luck to you! :)

[chrisbute]

Hey Chris! I'm running a 4 mile race Sat. morning myself! Best of luck to you! :)

You rarely see a 4 mile race any more. Most are 5K, 10K. I have even done some 8K's. Good luck to you too!

[snoack]

Tonight my goal is to start reducing my walk lap between my 2 1 mile segments. This should be interesting, as I'm dragging pretty bad this morning. Hopefully I'll come around by the time I get off work today.

Tonight's goal

1 mile
3/4 lap
1 mile
1 lap
1/2 mile

[bhaputi]

Good luck! Hydrate during the day and toss some caffeine in a little bit before the workout :)

[rpaul11]

good luck Snoak. My hip feels great today still after my short run the other night. But I'm not gonna push it right now. Eliptical tonight because that doesn't aggrivate it. GOnna go probably 3 miles on a 11 intensity. THen sunday or Monday I'll do another mile and see how things hold up.

[snoack]

Good luck! Hydrate during the day and toss some caffeine in a little bit before the workout :)


I usually drink about a gallon of water during the day at work. Yesterday I had a cup of coffee at about 3:30 and got a huge surge out of that, so I think I'm going to do that again today and probably suck down a diet Pepsi Max when I get home as well.

[snoack]

Good luck! Hydrate during the day and toss some caffeine in a little bit before the workout :)


I usually drink about a gallon of water during the day at work. Yesterday I had a cup of coffee at about 3:30 and got a huge surge out of that, so I think I'm going to do that again today and probably suck down a diet Pepsi Max when I get home as well.

Taking my boy up to the track with me tonight so that he can ride his bike around while I run.

[snoack]

Yesterday started good but turned a little rough in the middle.

ran 4 1/4 laps to start
walk 3/4
run 2
walk 1
run 2 (last lap was at full stride, though)

breathing was fine, legs were a little tired, which, considering the way I had beaten on them the previous 2 days, wasn't suprising. Going to do some running in class tomorrow, next real running session is Sunday. Goal is to open that with 4 1/2 laps, walk 1/2, then run 4 more.

[bhaputi]

Good job Steve. Keep plugging away.

I did a rather hard workout yesterday. I am currently working out 7 days a week, lifting 3 of them, track work on 2, and running alone on the other 2. My legs are feeling it :) Yesterday was sprint form and core work:

- 800M @ 3:13
- 2 sets of 30 pushups / 50 supine bicycles
- 2 x 200M @ 70% (purely to get myself "feeling" the correct form)
- 2 x 200M @ 100% (held my form - yay!)
- 2 sets of 20 "leg-raise" pushups / 20 "bicycle" crunches
- 1600M @ 7:03

That last 1600M was a freaking killer. To add to it, the cheerleaders were out running on the track too, so I couldn't wuss out :)

My right glute/hammy is talking to me today. Glad today is just 4 easy miles...

[rpaul11]

Good job Steve. Keep plugging away.

I did a rather hard workout yesterday. I am currently working out 7 days a week, lifting 3 of them, track work on 2, and running alone on the other 2. My legs are feeling it :) Yesterday was sprint form and core work:

- 800M @ 3:13
- 2 sets of 30 pushups / 50 supine bicycles
- 2 x 200M @ 70% (purely to get myself "feeling" the correct form)
- 2 x 200M @ 100% (held my form - yay!)
- 2 sets of 20 "leg-raise" pushups / 20 "bicycle" crunches
- 1600M @ 7:03

That last 1600M was a freaking killer. To add to it, the cheerleaders were out running on the track too, so I couldn't wuss out :)

My right glute/hammy is talking to me today. Glad today is just 4 easy miles...


wow what a workout. Gonna test the hip again on Sunday when I'm at the gym....:)

[bhaputi]

wow what a workout. Gonna test the hip again on Sunday when I'm at the gym....:)

Thanks. It was pretty tough mainly due to being 85F and very sunny. Getting into shape for the academy is a frigging killer....

Good luck with the hip.

[rpaul11]

Thanks. It was pretty tough mainly due to being 85F and very sunny. Getting into shape for the academy is a frigging killer....

Good luck with the hip.

oh...didn't know you were training for something such as that. Best of luck to you :)

The hip will be fine in time :)

[snoack]

Good job Steve. Keep plugging away.

I did a rather hard workout yesterday. I am currently working out 7 days a week, lifting 3 of them, track work on 2, and running alone on the other 2. My legs are feeling it :) Yesterday was sprint form and core work:

- 800M @ 3:13
- 2 sets of 30 pushups / 50 supine bicycles
- 2 x 200M @ 70% (purely to get myself "feeling" the correct form)
- 2 x 200M @ 100% (held my form - yay!)
- 2 sets of 20 "leg-raise" pushups / 20 "bicycle" crunches
- 1600M @ 7:03

That last 1600M was a freaking killer. To add to it, the cheerleaders were out running on the track too, so I couldn't wuss out :)

My right glute/hammy is talking to me today. Glad today is just 4 easy miles...

thanks. Pace right now for running is right about 10 minutes/mile. Hope to have the full distance down by the end of next week, then I can start working pace and add on distance.


wow what a workout. Gonna test the hip again on Sunday when I'm at the gym....:)

I'll think good thoughts for you.:D

[rpaul11]

thanks. Pace right now for running is right about 10 minutes/mile. Hope to have the full distance down by the end of next week, then I can start working pace and add on distance.



I'll think good thoughts for you.:D

I'll be fine...but thanks :)

Right now my test runs are a 12 min mile until I get the hip stronger. I was doing just under 9 on a relatively flat walking/biking trail when I first started experiencing my problem. I really think I just pushed too hard too quick. I'm hard headed that way...

[Ophus]

I'll be fine...but thanks :)

Right now my test runs are a 12 min mile until I get the hip stronger. I was doing just under 9 on a relatively flat walking/biking trail when I first started experiencing my problem. I really think I just pushed too hard too quick. I'm hard headed that way...


Glad to hear the hip is better, maybe it was the shoes and you wont have anymore problems. I do understand going too far too fast, I believe that and the wrong shoes is what got me the problem last year.

Good job everyone, it's good to see so many enjoying running and doing so well!

[rpaul11]

Glad to hear the hip is better, maybe it was the shoes and you wont have anymore problems. I do understand going too far too fast, I believe that and the wrong shoes is what got me the problem last year.

Good job everyone, it's good to see so many enjoying running and doing so well!

I hope so. Ran agian today on the treadmill. 20 mins at a 12 min mile. So far so good. Will stretch the hip a second time a little later.



we had a few folks racing this weekend...how did it go folks?

[5krunner]

I hope so. Ran agian today on the treadmill. 20 mins at a 12 min mile. So far so good. Will stretch the hip a second time a little later.



we had a few folks racing this weekend...how did it go folks?


I ran a 4 mile race and it was a blast! Finished in 26:02...31st out of 313 people.The course was beautiful and the event was very well run and organized! I learned a lot! Especially from the 19-24 yr. olds that kicked my butt! :)

[rpaul11]

I ran a 4 mile race and it was a blast! Finished in 26:02...31st out of 313 people.The course was beautiful and the event was very well run and organized! I learned a lot! Especially from the 19-24 yr. olds that kicked my butt! :)

that would be an unreal time for me to finish. Congrats on your race. Care to share any of the lessons learned for us newbies :)

[5krunner]

that would be an unreal time for me to finish. Congrats on your race. Care to share any of the lessons learned for us newbies :)

I'm still a newbie myself...only been running for a little over a year. :)One thing I learned is that I need to push myself much harder while training! My first mile was under 6 and I faded towards the end. My mile times have been dropping a lot in the past few months but there's a lot of room for improvement! Any tips from the experienced runners out there would be much appreciated! :)

[Bando]

I ran a 4 mile race and it was a blast! Finished in 26:02...31st out of 313 people.The course was beautiful and the event was very well run and organized! I learned a lot! Especially from the 19-24 yr. olds that kicked my butt! :)

Nice run.

I've got a 5k in 2 weeks and am totally unprepared. Did 1.25 at 10 min pace Thursday, but it's looking like it's gonna be a 5K jog for me.:(

[bhaputi]

I'm still a newbie myself...only been running for a little over a year. :)One thing I learned is that I need to push myself much harder while training! My first mile was under 6 and I faded towards the end. My mile times have been dropping a lot in the past few months but there's a lot of room for improvement! Any tips from the experienced runners out there would be much appreciated! :)

Firstoff, that is awesome for running less than a year. Good job :)

As for working harder in training, any chance of finding a partner? I ran by myself for a long time and, while I was improving, I did not truly start to push myself extremely hard until I started running with someone else.

What type of training do you do? Are you looking to increase distance, or stick to 5K/4Mile races? Do you do speedwork?

[rpaul11]

Firstoff, that is awesome for running less than a year. Good job :)



no kiddin......that is a great time if ya ask me.

BTW>..hip still feels good today.

Should I rest it another week before running again and then up to 24 minutes at same pace? Or try the same run mid week this week?

[plcsp]

Something I learned over time. If you get a cycle down for your breathing, it makes your running easier and injuries decrease.

I had a pattern to my breathing for anything above 3 miles. Mine was "in, in, out", the 2 "in" breaths were short and quick and the "out" breath was until I got all of it out. It became like a song in my head while I ran and it helped take my mind off of other things.

The same breathing pattern won't work for everyone, but after trying many things that really helped me. Another thing that I think really helped was that I would run breathing in through my nose the first mile or so and it would make my breathing controlled so I had a paced start.
I think alot of people's problems on long runs is that they start out too fast. I often found myself at the back of the group at the start, only to be up front at the end. Passing people is a huge motivation.

credentials: placed 133 out of 5,007 in half-marathon. (no e-stats)

[rpaul11]

I had a pattern to my breathing for anything above 3 miles. Mine was "in, in, out", the 2 "in" breaths were short and quick and the "out" breath was until I got all of it out. It became like a song in my head while I ran and it helped take my mind off of other things.

The same breathing pattern won't work for everyone, but after trying many things that really helped me. Another thing that I think really helped was that I would run breathing in through my nose the first mile or so and it would make my breathing controlled so I had a paced start.
I think alot of people's problems on long runs is that they start out too fast. I often found myself at the back of the group at the start, only to be up front at the end. Passing people is a huge motivation.

credentials: placed 133 out of 5,007 in half-marathon. (no e-stats)


I have been doing in 2 then out 2 and it seems to be working ok for me. My breating does not seem to be my problem at all. Breathing seems good and lungs are ahead of my joints by far as conditioning goes.

[Ophus]

I ran a 4 mile race and it was a blast! Finished in 26:02...31st out of 313 people.The course was beautiful and the event was very well run and organized! I learned a lot! Especially from the 19-24 yr. olds that kicked my butt! :)

Hi 5k runner,

I just wanted to say that you inspire me to get to my goals of running and weight traning. Looking at your avatar you are proof that running and being muscular, do not have to be exclusive of each other.

Nice job!

[5krunner]

Firstoff, that is awesome for running less than a year. Good job :)

As for working harder in training, any chance of finding a partner? I ran by myself for a long time and, while I was improving, I did not truly start to push myself extremely hard until I started running with someone else.

What type of training do you do? Are you looking to increase distance, or stick to 5K/4Mile races? Do you do speedwork?

Thanks man! Finding a running partner was just what I was thinking about yesterday. I have a friend at work that ran in college and still does marathons.Maybe I can talk him into it! :) I only want to stick with 5K & 10k runs for now. I'm a little worried if I take on the longer distances that I'll be burning up the muscle that I've worked hard to gain.I have never done speedwork but am interested in it. Care to share any more info on it? :)

[bhaputi]

Thanks man! Finding a running partner was just what I was thinking about yesterday. I have a friend at work that ran in college and still does marathons.Maybe I can talk him into it! :) I only want to stick with 5K & 10k runs for now. I'm a little worried if I take on the longer distances that I'll be burning up the muscle that I've worked hard to gain.I have never done speedwork but am interested in it. Care to share any more info on it? :)

For your goals, I would 100% recommend working tempo runs into the mix if you do not do them already. Tempo pace is vaguely defined as roughly 15-30 seconds slower than your 10K pace, or a pace you can hold for 1 hour. They are usually done for 20 minutes or so, with added warmup/cooldown.

You can also look at fartleks, strides (aka: striders/strideouts), and intervals. 800M repeats at the track would likely help hugely. They helped me drop my 1.5 mile time from 11+ minutes to 10:03 within about 2 months. I would not go any farther than 800M repeats unless you plan to start going further.

Honestly, let me know if you want more detail.


Oh, and for pacing, check this out:
http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

As far as weekly workouts, what I currently do is:

Monday: weights/cross-train
Tuesday: Trackwork (speedwork, usually intervals) mixed with bodyweight work
Wednesday: weights/cross-train
Thursday: Either Easy run or LSD, depending how I feel
Friday: Speedwork at the track again
Saturday: Weights/cross-train or easy run
Sunday: LSD, Easy run, or rest.

Note: I do _not_ recommend doing speedwork 2 times a week, especially when first starting, and I also recommend more rest time.

[chrisbute]

Oh, and for pacing, check this out:
http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm



Very cool tool. Runners World has something like this, but this has more info. I bookmarked the site. Thanks

[wubby]

Note: I do _not_ recommend doing speedwork 2 times a week, especially when first starting, and I also recommend more rest time.

Great information and great link.

I also agree that it takes a while to build up to speedwork 2x a week. When I am training for something specific I tend to do speedwork Tuesdays, hill repeats on Thursdays, and long tempo runs on Saturdays. Everything in between is either easy running or cross training.

[Braindrop]

Sunday: LSD, Easy run, or rest.

Don't you find the hallucinations to be distracting during a run?

:)

[snoack]

back at the track tomorrow, didn't make it yesterday.

[bhaputi]

Don't you find the hallucinations to be distracting during a run?

:)

The dragons, they chase me and make me faster...

[5krunner]

Hi 5k runner,

I just wanted to say that you inspire me to get to my goals of running and weight traning. Looking at your avatar you are proof that running and being muscular, do not have to be exclusive of each other.

Nice job!

Thanks a lot Ophus! Much appreciated! :)

[snoack]

The dragons, they chase me and make me faster...

that's why I slapped this one on my arm.

[gjohnson5]

Wow , maybe I should rip running more cause this is the most action in the whole over 35 forum

[wubby]

Wow , maybe I should rip running more cause this is the most action in the whole over 35 forum

Runner's get all the action - chicks dig endurance ;)

[biggun_]

Runner's get all the action - chicks dig endurance ;)
Tell my wife that.

[5krunner]

Runner's get all the action - chicks dig endurance ;)

Not to mention that most chicks that run are nice to look at! I almost enjoyed being passed by a few of them this weekend! :)

[wubby]

Tell my wife that.

Will do - what's her number? :)


Not to mention that most chicks that run are nice to look at! I almost enjoyed being passed by a few of them this weekend! :)

I have had a few races where I was motivated to run a little faster because of the view in front of me :)

[jwdjrs]

I have had a few races where I was motivated to run a little faster because of the view in front of me :)x 2

[snoack]

Got some real good work in last night, ready to push for a 5th lap tomorrow night.

Goal would be this-

run 5
walk 1
run 4
walk 1
run 2

[bhaputi]

Steve,
Good luck - let us know how it goes

[snoack]

Steve,
Good luck - let us know how it goes

will do. Actually felt pretty good last night. Legs were strong, breathing was good. At this point, it's all mental.

[bhaputi]

will do. Actually felt pretty good last night. Legs were strong, breathing was good. At this point, it's all mental.

The mental aspect is huge. Just last night I was running through a test run of the physical test my partner and I are training for. I was dead heading into the last thing - the 1.5 mile run. My ankle hurt, my hammies were screaming for the earlier sprint, and I felt like I was going to puke. Add to that the fact that it was 92F and very sunny (and my damn sunglasses broke), and I was not looking forward to running. Kept telling myself to quit being such a damn wuss, though, and wound up doing the 1.5 miles in 10:35. Not my best time by far, but not bad. I literally had to collapse and not move for about 2 minutes after, or I was going to pass out. God, I love that feeling :)